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<blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3593680" data-attributes="member: 2268">Okay, first thing, thanks for the pointers as to where to find some atempts at explanation. Is appreciated. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> But to be honest, Andy's reasoning is a bit...huh...off, in my opinion. Saying that the options for a caster with Polymorph Self ae only limited by the number of monsters out there shows a bit how even the designers got caught in the wave of &quot;E-DM-ancipation&quot; that was brought along by 3E. The number of options is, usually, limited as well by the DM. The solution could be as easy as the one for the thousands of spells published...you point to those monster books that represent the monster population of your campaign world. If a player brings up a monster from Book X not on the list, you can simply say &quot;No&quot;. Or is that such a novelty by now?&nbsp; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid&nbsp; &nbsp; :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" /> The thing is...what do I gain by having my fighter transform into a troll? Nothing except the ability increase, scent, darkvision, +7 natural armor, natural attacks, and reach. At least when I look at the &quot;first&quot; version of the spell. And that's for a 4th level spell. You don't even change your creature type, you stay &quot;Humanoid&quot;. Questions about equipment? If the new form can use it, it adapts to the shape, if it can't, the equipment melts into the new shape and is unusable. And hit points don't increase despite the Con change. The only real question I have is about Feats and Skills of the new shape...personally I'd say they are not gained, as they are neither physical nor natural abilities.Just as an experiment..if anybody wants to join. Lets take the MM1 and try to find a monster that is Large, not templated (only the &quot;average&quot; version of the monster allowed), and would be a serious problem compared to a 7th level game under the conditions of a 3E Polymorph Self/Other spell? *digs out MM1*Edit: I dare say a Fire Giant would be a better choice for a fighting shape anyway. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Geron Raveneye, post: 3593680, member: 2268"] Okay, first thing, thanks for the pointers as to where to find some atempts at explanation. Is appreciated. :) But to be honest, Andy's reasoning is a bit...huh...off, in my opinion. Saying that the options for a caster with [i]Polymorph Self[/i] ae only limited by the number of monsters out there shows a bit how even the designers got caught in the wave of "E-DM-ancipation" that was brought along by 3E. The number of options is, usually, limited as well by the DM. The solution could be as easy as the one for the thousands of spells published...you point to those monster books that represent the monster population of your campaign world. If a player brings up a monster from Book X not on the list, you can simply say "No". Or is that such a novelty by now? :uhoh: The thing is...what do I gain by having my fighter transform into a troll? Nothing except the ability increase, scent, darkvision, +7 natural armor, natural attacks, and reach. At least when I look at the "first" version of the spell. And that's for a 4th level spell. You don't even change your creature type, you stay "Humanoid". Questions about equipment? If the new form can use it, it adapts to the shape, if it can't, the equipment melts into the new shape and is unusable. And hit points don't increase despite the Con change. The only real question I have is about Feats and Skills of the new shape...personally I'd say they are not gained, as they are neither physical nor natural abilities. Just as an experiment..if anybody wants to join. Lets take the MM1 and try to find a monster that is Large, not templated (only the "average" version of the monster allowed), and would be a serious problem compared to a 7th level game under the conditions of a 3E [i]Polymorph Self/Other[/i] spell? *digs out MM1* Edit: I dare say a Fire Giant would be a better choice for a fighting shape anyway. ;) [/QUOTE]

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