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General Tabletop Discussion
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Why different HD types for classes? (Another HP thread...)
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7848714" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Ashrym said -</p><p></p><p></p><p>To my reading, [USER=6750235]@Ashrym[/USER] was referencing weapon use examples that expressly relied on taking Elven Weapon Training. [USER=6750235]@Ashrym[/USER]'s comment drew my attention to the fact that once race choices are included, a character can have spells at 1st level just as much as they can have access to more skillful weapons.</p><p></p><p>Even if I thought skill with weapons was only about the attack bonus, I would still feel that [USER=6987520]@dnd4vr[/USER]'s hope can't reasonably be addressed (i.e. that a wizard should <em>never</em> have a better attack bonus than a fighter). The ability modifier swing in D&D is 5 points (points-buy) or 9 points (4d6k3), so at first level the proficiency modifier difference would need to be more than that to guarantee wizards were always worse than fighters. And if they are that much worse than fighters, we run into the kinds of problem that bounded accuracy is designed to address.</p><p></p><p>Say we did impose a crushing disability with weapons on wizards - for the sake of argument, let's go with −10 at level one! (Or we give fighters +10, which will force up ACs so much as to amount to the same thing.) Why in any case would a wizard prefer their dagger over any one of their much better damage-dealing cantrips such as d10 at 120' with <em>fire bolt</em> that uses their best ability modifier for its attack bonus? We can whip up edge cases, like a fire immune creature and a wizard with only one damage-dealing cantrip and spell slots exhausted... I think I'd like fighter to shine in more than just such edge cases.</p><p></p><p>It is better to have a game system where skill with weapons is multi-dimensional... which is really what 5e offers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7848714, member: 71699"] Ashrym said - To my reading, [USER=6750235]@Ashrym[/USER] was referencing weapon use examples that expressly relied on taking Elven Weapon Training. [USER=6750235]@Ashrym[/USER]'s comment drew my attention to the fact that once race choices are included, a character can have spells at 1st level just as much as they can have access to more skillful weapons. Even if I thought skill with weapons was only about the attack bonus, I would still feel that [USER=6987520]@dnd4vr[/USER]'s hope can't reasonably be addressed (i.e. that a wizard should [I]never[/I] have a better attack bonus than a fighter). The ability modifier swing in D&D is 5 points (points-buy) or 9 points (4d6k3), so at first level the proficiency modifier difference would need to be more than that to guarantee wizards were always worse than fighters. And if they are that much worse than fighters, we run into the kinds of problem that bounded accuracy is designed to address. Say we did impose a crushing disability with weapons on wizards - for the sake of argument, let's go with −10 at level one! (Or we give fighters +10, which will force up ACs so much as to amount to the same thing.) Why in any case would a wizard prefer their dagger over any one of their much better damage-dealing cantrips such as d10 at 120' with [I]fire bolt[/I] that uses their best ability modifier for its attack bonus? We can whip up edge cases, like a fire immune creature and a wizard with only one damage-dealing cantrip and spell slots exhausted... I think I'd like fighter to shine in more than just such edge cases. It is better to have a game system where skill with weapons is multi-dimensional... which is really what 5e offers. [/QUOTE]
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