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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 4596650" data-attributes="member: 5834">re4E combats last an enormous amount of time with my group. Not sure if it is our DM or players being slow or the game. Probably a bit of a combination of factors. The one thing that beginning to drive me nuts about 4E is the amount of minutiae involved in it. Every round some effect is occurring that must be tracked on the character whether a daze, slow, mark, or whatever condition comes up. It really makes 4E combat tedious. I've gone through cycles of hating 4E to liking it to hating it to tolerating it. I've finally reached the point where I'm inured to it. I still don't much like it. I won't be purchasing any books for it, but as long as someone else is willing to buy the books and run it I'll play. For myself it feels like a glorified miniatures board game.The same old problems are cropping up that were there before. It used to be that Fireball and Magic Missile were the old spell standbys of wizards. Now it is anything that is sustainable and moveable. And most characters love to take powers with the daze and/or sun effect because daze and stun  are so much better than slow or most of the other effects. People hate taking powers with saving throws now. Rarely does a power that requires a save last and most of my players hate to take a spell that requires a saving throw because it feels like they wasted a spell, especially when it comes to daily attack powers.All this and combat isn't shorter than previous editions. Grinding combats are not particularly fun combats as far as I'm concerned. I miss the days when players could mow down minor encounters. They don't even fear solos. We have had one solo that caused any problems the entire time we've played. Other than that solos die easily because 5 or more attacks per round always beats 2 attacks per round.</blockquote>

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