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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5896795" data-attributes="member: 87792">What does players working together even mean? What end are people working together towards? In character, the characters are normally working together to do something important like save the world. Yet you are saying that a part of the game includes deliberately not trying your hardest to save the world so you can worry about the rogue's pwecious feelings. You are quite literally endangering the fate of the world to not have issues with one person's justified feelings of inadequacy. As for the idea that DMs would have a backbone, I have this idea that when I pay money for a professionally produced product the work will actually be professional. I bought that product to take the heavy lifting off my shoulders. If mistakes are made they are made. Errata helps. But there is a level of using things for their intended purpose in any system that if it fails, the whole product should be considered not fit for purpose. And the correct response to a product being not fit for purpose that you've paid good money for is to take it back and demand your money back.  I'm sorry, there might be arguments on both sides - but that's like saying there are arguments on both sides about who's the better painter between a random college undergrad and Pablo Picasso. One cure minor wounds and the cleric's carrying as many HP as the fighter. The cleric has the same AC as the fighter. The cleric has better defences than the fighter. In your quest to prove balance you need to demonstrate that two feats (one for a good weapon), plus one feat every two levels, plus a point of BaB every two levels is a match for full primary spellcasting. And... um... no. No it isn't. Nightsticks aren't actually that bad. They were intended for turning undead which is a marginal use in most settings - it gets bad only when you combo them. Someone didn't spot the combo. I'd therefore be happy to allow them under the condition that their turn attempts could only be spent on turning undead and call that the RAI. (And then blame WoTC for not putting out errata).</blockquote>

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