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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ForeverSlayer" data-source="post: 5896867" data-attributes="member: 91812">To everyone that responded to my posts:     First of all, D&D used to be a voluntary team game. 4th edition made it into a forced team game because it doesn’t trust everyone to work together.   If a player is using another class to mimic you is fine because there is nothing wrong with having two classes that are similar trying to work together. If someone is just trying their best to out do you then there is a problem with that player and not the system.  If you design your wizard to be a rogue type then there is nothing wrong with that but for the people that think a wizard can replace a rogue, you really need to think back to what a rogue can do and a wizard can’t do. Rogues can disarm traps, use “any” magic item in the game thanks to UMD, Sneak Attack, Evasion(As a class ability), Uncanny Dodge(As a class ability), Long list of skills, better BAB etc…   Well you say there are a few things the Wizard can do as well and one of them I hear is Invisibility. Well that’s true but Stealth is a hell of a lot better that Invisibility because See Invisibility doesn’t detect stealth because it’s not magical hiding. Detect Magic could give you an idea as well as to where someone is hiding due to Invisibility or even Superior Invis.   Also I keep hearing about wands of Summon Monster I being used to set off traps. That’s great and all but those are used for only a few types of traps. I don’t know of anything that you can summon that can open a door because it doesn’t have hands.  Oh and the big kicker!  What’s wrong with a rogue having these things as well? The rogue has UMD so he can have and use “any” type of Scroll, Wand, Item etc… The rogue is actually more of a utility monkey than the wizard.   Let’s use RAW for a moment here. According to RAW, the only guarantee that a Wizard has of gaining new spells is his 2 per level. Finding that spellbook, finding that other mage to copy from, finding those magic shops are all optional and up to the DM, they are not guaranteed. Sure there are rules for buying and copying but you have to get to that point and getting there is purely up to your DM. So if you aren’t trying to mimic another class, are you going to sit there and waste your spell choices on those types of spells?   With regards to the cleric: So the consensus consists of a few internet forums that don’t even make up close to half the total gaming population? Careful when putting all your eggs in one basket. To make a long story short, the cleric and fighter debate remains subjective.</blockquote>

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