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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5900944" data-attributes="member: 22779">How is your 1e fighter contributing to the game outside of combat that has anything to do with his class?&nbsp; In what way is he contributing that you could not do in exactly the same way with any other character?/edit to add You're also missing the point.&nbsp; It's not that you can't do things outside of your character's schtick.&nbsp; It's when your schtick only exists because one (or more) of the players at the table allows your schtick to exist.&nbsp; No, the wizard with a wand of knock isn't being a dick player when he overshadows the rogue.&nbsp; The rogue has a chance of failure.&nbsp; The wizard doesn't.&nbsp; Why wouldn't the wizard take over opening locks?&nbsp; He's the best at it.&nbsp; No, the wizard with Unseen Servant isn't being a dick for triggering every trap.&nbsp; He's defeating the traps in the safest manner possible.&nbsp; He's the best at it.&nbsp; Why wouldn't he do it?&nbsp; No the cleric burning a Divine Might spell isn't being a dick when he makes the fighter look like an amateur.&nbsp; He's playing his character.&nbsp; On and on and on.Balance means that no single option is clearly better than all other options.&nbsp; Knock is better than Open Locks.&nbsp; It's balanced by being a much more limited resource.&nbsp; Only, that limitation can be very easily removed at very low levels.&nbsp; So, it's not balanced.Oh, and, a bit of a rant.I'm getting really tired of people doing the passive/agressive schtick of &quot;Oh, you poor poor gamer, if you only knew how to play better, you'd be ok.&quot;&nbsp; Gimme a break.&nbsp; It's condescending and ridiculous.&nbsp; Sorry, you have zero idea what happens at my table and please, for the love of little fishes, stop projecting your own inadequacies on others.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5900944, member: 22779"] How is your 1e fighter contributing to the game outside of combat that has anything to do with his class? In what way is he contributing that you could not do in exactly the same way with any other character? /edit to add You're also missing the point. It's not that you can't do things outside of your character's schtick. It's when your schtick only exists because one (or more) of the players at the table allows your schtick to exist. No, the wizard with a wand of knock isn't being a dick player when he overshadows the rogue. The rogue has a chance of failure. The wizard doesn't. Why wouldn't the wizard take over opening locks? He's the best at it. No, the wizard with Unseen Servant isn't being a dick for triggering every trap. He's defeating the traps in the safest manner possible. He's the best at it. Why wouldn't he do it? No the cleric burning a Divine Might spell isn't being a dick when he makes the fighter look like an amateur. He's playing his character. On and on and on. Balance means that no single option is clearly better than all other options. Knock is better than Open Locks. It's balanced by being a much more limited resource. Only, that limitation can be very easily removed at very low levels. So, it's not balanced. Oh, and, a bit of a rant. I'm getting really tired of people doing the passive/agressive schtick of "Oh, you poor poor gamer, if you only knew how to play better, you'd be ok." Gimme a break. It's condescending and ridiculous. Sorry, you have zero idea what happens at my table and please, for the love of little fishes, stop projecting your own inadequacies on others. [/QUOTE]

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