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<blockquote data-quote="hanez" data-source="post: 5902765" data-attributes="member: 82160">3e had Tome of Battle that gave fighters similar options, the presence of that choice for martial types was a welcome addition in 3e AND 4e.&nbsp; But the removal of the choice to be a simple traditional D&amp;D fighter&nbsp; in 4e WAS a problem.&nbsp; I can think of&nbsp; two players in&nbsp; my campaigns (one always plays a dwarven fighter, the other always plays a half orc barbarian) that had problems with 4e forcing them to use a complicated &quot;spell list&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; So I might ammend your quote to be &quot;Fighters being forced to do more then hit things with sharp stuff and now manage &quot;fight- spells&quot; was a problem.&nbsp;&nbsp; Nevertheless I think core D&amp;D NEEDS a fighter with choices/spell lists similar to the 4e version, call him the warlord or the ritualfighter or something, make him a choice for the player who wants to play a more complicated martial type, there are plenty of players who want that choice.&nbsp; But DONT take away the simple 5 attacks a round fighter either because there are plenty of players who consider that a staple of D&amp;D.Oh and removing the option at playing vancian, a staple of D&amp;D, that too.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hanez, post: 5902765, member: 82160"] 3e had Tome of Battle that gave fighters similar options, the presence of that choice for martial types was a welcome addition in 3e AND 4e. But the removal of the choice to be a simple traditional D&D fighter in 4e WAS a problem. I can think of two players in my campaigns (one always plays a dwarven fighter, the other always plays a half orc barbarian) that had problems with 4e forcing them to use a complicated "spell list". So I might ammend your quote to be "Fighters being forced to do more then hit things with sharp stuff and now manage "fight- spells" was a problem. Nevertheless I think core D&D NEEDS a fighter with choices/spell lists similar to the 4e version, call him the warlord or the ritualfighter or something, make him a choice for the player who wants to play a more complicated martial type, there are plenty of players who want that choice. But DONT take away the simple 5 attacks a round fighter either because there are plenty of players who consider that a staple of D&D. Oh and removing the option at playing vancian, a staple of D&D, that too. [/QUOTE]

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