Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5906890" data-attributes="member: 87792">Oh, you mean by DM Fiat.  <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/heal.htm" target="_blank">Heal has specific uses</a>.  Now using heal for forensic pathology is something I'd allow as DM.  And allowing it was a good thing.  But it's not the skills themselves driving the game forward.<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/5904437-post177.html" target="_blank">When you answered Hussar's challenge in this post</a>.  Hussar's challenge was:Create a party of 15th level characters.  Now, add a 1st level character  to the party.  How much is that 1st level character contributing to the  game?" It was therefore very specifically a 15th level party that you were saying could be helped by:Gathering food quickly, navigating, or dealing with animals/plants (like gathering herbs) if nobody has any survival skills. And so on.  I wasn't the one who brought it up.Why are the fighters commanding armies?  How are they?  If it's 3.X, I see no abilities that even slightly help fighters command armies.  A bard would make a better general than a fighter.  And that's the problem in 3.X/PF.  The fighters get no epicness.  It all goes to the casters.And that's another problem.  When I've not even tried to min-max - just taken a simple class out of the box like Wizard, Druid, or Summoner, and people think I'm a j-rk for using it then the fault is that of the game designer.If they object to my Bard 4/Barbarian 1/Ur-priest 4/<a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=2" target="_blank">Nar Demonbinder</a> 1/Mystic Theurge 5 with his 9th level divine spells, 8th level arcane spells, and caster levels probably in the 40s (I really can't be bothered to solve the simultaneous equations for that build's caster levels) then they have every right to call me a jerk.  But if my build is Druid 15 Summoner 15 and I'm using summons from core and no real monkey business then the problem is that the designer messed up.Oh, I remember saying it - and it is slight hyperbole.  I just need several steps to demonstrate quite how much of a supernumerary the fighter is.1: Compare the combat ability of the level 15 fighter to that of a crippled level 13 summoner.  Showing that even when we take away the biggest class features of a relatively strong class (probably the third strongest PF class - but behind wizard and cleric) and dock a few levels from the summoner, the fighter is way out of his league at the things he is supposed to be good at.2: Try to baseline the combat ability of the level 15 fighter against an ordinary summoner who leads with summon monster.  I then suggested that 10th level was fair as being able to drop almost 300 hp of anklysauri and follow up with spells would be as useful as the fighter, so you couldn't match a L11 summoner even without an Eidolon.3: Realise that this makes the fighter in combat, the place where he is supposed to shine, the equivalent of five threat levels lower than the other PCs.  In other words not a significant threat. 4: Add in to the mix that the fighter is not only not a threat in combat, he has almost no skill outside combat.5: Trivial in combat and almost a zero outside combat makes the fighter a supernumerary.  Sure he's got 28 skill points more than the commoner, and a whole lot of hp.  But it's still a supernumerary.Name three fighter specific items.No.  Because no one in their senses would waste the spells on the commoner.  You tell the commoner to stay home.</blockquote>

Verification