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Why do DM's like Dark, gritty worlds and players the opposite?
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<blockquote data-quote="cmbarona" data-source="post: 4978342" data-attributes="member: 71281"><p>I can attest to having a fantastic GM in a dark world, namely Vampire: the Masquerade's World of Darkness.</p><p></p><p>What made it grim wasn't players constantly dying. I was the only character to die, although that was a combination of a very rare "gotcha!" GM moment and a poor decision on my part; either not happening would have avoided the death.</p><p></p><p>What made it grim wasn't player restriction. We had a powergamer in our group, but the GM didn't restrict his options. In fact, we were encouraged to become powerful beings, but that increase in power opened doors to more interesting interactions with the world.</p><p></p><p>Related to power restriction but still a separate concept, what made it grim also wasn't a low-fantasy setting. White Wolf is notorious for introducing players to a wide array of supernatural phenomena, and furthermore, encouraging players to participate in that fantasy.</p><p></p><p>Instead, what made it grim was entirely ambiance. From a plot perspective, there was plenty of intrigue within the city, and that frequently involved wars, backstabbing, tenuous alliances, etc. From a setting perspective, it involved a certain carelessness toward life, especially the lives of humans.</p><p></p><p>On top of all that, I found the game to be "gritty," a term floating around here that is somehow paired with grim. I don't think the two concepts are necessarily paired, but having one tends to go hand in hand with having the other. I guess gritty refers to that Die Hard effect mentioned above. Our characters were beat up. A lot. And we faced tough challenges. Notice that we were powerful characters, but the challenges we faced met us head-on. Part of that grittiness was also in the description of the challenges we faced; we as players were drawn into the challenges through vivid description that matched the mechanics we used. Notice, however, I'm not arguing that grittiness lies in description or challenge in itself, but that the players experience the game as challenging.</p><p></p><p>So, to recap my opinion based on this experience:</p><p></p><p>1) Grim = ambiance</p><p>2) Gritty = challenging for players</p><p>3) Grim and/or Gritty =/= poor GMing</p><p></p><p>P.S.: FYI, D&D 4e's DMG very explicitly states as a core assumption that the world is generally dark with small points of light (DMG 150, core assumptions).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="cmbarona, post: 4978342, member: 71281"] I can attest to having a fantastic GM in a dark world, namely Vampire: the Masquerade's World of Darkness. What made it grim wasn't players constantly dying. I was the only character to die, although that was a combination of a very rare "gotcha!" GM moment and a poor decision on my part; either not happening would have avoided the death. What made it grim wasn't player restriction. We had a powergamer in our group, but the GM didn't restrict his options. In fact, we were encouraged to become powerful beings, but that increase in power opened doors to more interesting interactions with the world. Related to power restriction but still a separate concept, what made it grim also wasn't a low-fantasy setting. White Wolf is notorious for introducing players to a wide array of supernatural phenomena, and furthermore, encouraging players to participate in that fantasy. Instead, what made it grim was entirely ambiance. From a plot perspective, there was plenty of intrigue within the city, and that frequently involved wars, backstabbing, tenuous alliances, etc. From a setting perspective, it involved a certain carelessness toward life, especially the lives of humans. On top of all that, I found the game to be "gritty," a term floating around here that is somehow paired with grim. I don't think the two concepts are necessarily paired, but having one tends to go hand in hand with having the other. I guess gritty refers to that Die Hard effect mentioned above. Our characters were beat up. A lot. And we faced tough challenges. Notice that we were powerful characters, but the challenges we faced met us head-on. Part of that grittiness was also in the description of the challenges we faced; we as players were drawn into the challenges through vivid description that matched the mechanics we used. Notice, however, I'm not arguing that grittiness lies in description or challenge in itself, but that the players experience the game as challenging. So, to recap my opinion based on this experience: 1) Grim = ambiance 2) Gritty = challenging for players 3) Grim and/or Gritty =/= poor GMing P.S.: FYI, D&D 4e's DMG very explicitly states as a core assumption that the world is generally dark with small points of light (DMG 150, core assumptions). [/QUOTE]
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Why do DM's like Dark, gritty worlds and players the opposite?
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