Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why do guns do so much damage?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8301402" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Which is why bullets don't throw people backwards. Momentum is not at all the same thing as force, nor does it matter at all to the damage of a bullet, except that you might derive velocity from it, which can be a useful number.</p><p></p><p>We're back to the claim that flintlock pistols had half the velocity of the rifle, I see. I went back, after our last toss on this, and looked up where this entered the thread. The only provenance for this is that you said a friend messaged you and told you this fact. No source, no cite. It doesn't align with the actually sourced and cited data in the thread, which show a velocity of just below 400m/s, empirically tested. And, before the claim of "modern powder" shows up again, the flintlock muskets had about the same velocity you're claiming from whatever source you have, so modern powder cannot both replicate the muskets AND be the cause of supercharged pistols in the same study with the same methodology. I mean, they use half the charge in the pistol (they list all the pertinent data). So, no, half the velocity is a non-starter.</p><p></p><p>However, if we're looking at that 200 grain musket ball from the flintlock musket (which seems light, given the Brown Bess was over 500 grains), then the kinetic energy is 2,229 kgm^2/s^2 (I'm not sure where you get the above, are you using a different weight than 0.013kg? As I said, this looks very light, but I'm trying to stick to your numbers). To give a reference, the .44 Magnum pistol cited in your article has a <a href="http://www.ballistics101.com/44_magnum.php" target="_blank">kinetic energy of 1147J at the muzzle</a>. The flintlock pistol listed in [USER=21169]@Doug McCrae[/USER]'s article is 1071J. Seems we're absolutely in the danger zone with both!</p><p></p><p>Wrong units for force, and the force of the flintlock musket about is dramatically higher. The actual acceleration value isn't the same as the velocity, because it has to reach that velocity down an approx 1 meter barrel in about 4 milliseconds. Your previous calculations for bullet force are off by about 3 orders of magnitude. Acceleration is around 103,000 m/s^2, not 414. So it's not 0.013kg*414, it's 0.013kg*103,000, or 1,339N of force, in an area about 2/3 of an inch across (actually, this force will be transferred along the path -- it's not an inelastic collision so all the force isn't immediately applied).</p><p></p><p>Swords are nasty, but your evaluation of bullets is consistently very far off the mark.</p><p></p><p>I hope I've provided enough clear points, and addressed the previously cited counter-points, sufficiently well to avoid being accused of bad-faith and being blocked, again.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8301402, member: 16814"] Which is why bullets don't throw people backwards. Momentum is not at all the same thing as force, nor does it matter at all to the damage of a bullet, except that you might derive velocity from it, which can be a useful number. We're back to the claim that flintlock pistols had half the velocity of the rifle, I see. I went back, after our last toss on this, and looked up where this entered the thread. The only provenance for this is that you said a friend messaged you and told you this fact. No source, no cite. It doesn't align with the actually sourced and cited data in the thread, which show a velocity of just below 400m/s, empirically tested. And, before the claim of "modern powder" shows up again, the flintlock muskets had about the same velocity you're claiming from whatever source you have, so modern powder cannot both replicate the muskets AND be the cause of supercharged pistols in the same study with the same methodology. I mean, they use half the charge in the pistol (they list all the pertinent data). So, no, half the velocity is a non-starter. However, if we're looking at that 200 grain musket ball from the flintlock musket (which seems light, given the Brown Bess was over 500 grains), then the kinetic energy is 2,229 kgm^2/s^2 (I'm not sure where you get the above, are you using a different weight than 0.013kg? As I said, this looks very light, but I'm trying to stick to your numbers). To give a reference, the .44 Magnum pistol cited in your article has a [URL='http://www.ballistics101.com/44_magnum.php']kinetic energy of 1147J at the muzzle[/URL]. The flintlock pistol listed in [USER=21169]@Doug McCrae[/USER]'s article is 1071J. Seems we're absolutely in the danger zone with both! Wrong units for force, and the force of the flintlock musket about is dramatically higher. The actual acceleration value isn't the same as the velocity, because it has to reach that velocity down an approx 1 meter barrel in about 4 milliseconds. Your previous calculations for bullet force are off by about 3 orders of magnitude. Acceleration is around 103,000 m/s^2, not 414. So it's not 0.013kg*414, it's 0.013kg*103,000, or 1,339N of force, in an area about 2/3 of an inch across (actually, this force will be transferred along the path -- it's not an inelastic collision so all the force isn't immediately applied). Swords are nasty, but your evaluation of bullets is consistently very far off the mark. I hope I've provided enough clear points, and addressed the previously cited counter-points, sufficiently well to avoid being accused of bad-faith and being blocked, again. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why do guns do so much damage?
Top