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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nevin" data-source="post: 9596235" data-attributes="member: 7024481">I've run a few high level games that were the end of campaigns and played in a few.  Plus I've run some of the "high" level modules released over the years.  Isle of the Ape and even one that was for up to 100th level characters that took the players to hell.  High level play has a lot of problems some of which I don't think there will ever really be a solution for. 1. DM has to be able to pull an elephant out of his ass at any moment because someone might do something he forgot they could do.   a few sessions ago had a player take out the mythic magic user secretly  making the battle quite even.  One spell in the wrong spot and a failed save it all turned.  That's high level.  you can spend 3 weeks tuning the encounters to prepare for the parties abilities and one mid to high level ability can screw all that tuning up.2. High level games if you play in campaigns generally have consequences.  Gods get pissed off about wishes, give thier cleric's miracles, reincarnate thier paladins (or anti-paladins) and send them after you.   Hell might get involved, Heaven might get involved.  There really aren't many Good High level sources to help inexperienced DM's the first time they step into the meat grinder.   Also a lot of DM's and tables, I even did it a few times back in my childhood, decide to run a "high" level game and without the story and the gods and all the other stuff, you get the game you hear about on the forums where the mage makes 15 simalcrums and wishes himself out of everything, or the Paladin get the uber relics and becomes completely invincible , or the one secret evil character kills everyone and walks away whistling into the night.   Lousy way to end a game that took that much effort.  Only the winner get's any satisfaction and even the DM leave the table regretting it. 3. It takes tons, and I means 100's of tons of effort to make sure the characters all have thier niche and that they have the right magic items or DM special abilities to maintain thier niche so that the cleric, or mage or paladin or character with 5 classes doesn't just start taking over the game and making people feel that they aren't needed.  Even when you get used to doing it, it's a permanent amount of bandwidth that is always running in your mind.    But at the same time at that level every single character at some point is going to take over a scenario and single handedly "hulk smash" your planning and win far faster than you thought possible.   And you have to remember at High level's that's the game as intended. 4. Too many people have only played high level where the DM kneecapped everything and tried to run it like a 7th level game and couldn't figure out why everyone hated it.   Seriously you guys that do that.  tape all but two fingers and try to type.  It's the same thing.5.  Honestly the only time I've ever had High level play work it was the outgrowth of a campaign where all the guard rails of Gods, and consequences from all the orders and secret societies and even the inhabitants of the characters home towns etc gave the characters all the kinds of things that limit people from doing the things thier players would never do in real life because they worry about families, temples friends or even what thier own party would think.    Those games generally can work but they are a lot of work and can make your poor DM nuerotic trying to keep track of all the moving parts of the world.6. Another problem of High level games are the guys that think the bad guys doing the same kinds of things the PC's will do is lame and unfair.   For instance if the PC's can teleport, scry and do all the things high level games can do, then thier enemies are going to move stuff in lead lined containers, make feints to get them to the wrong side of the world so they can act while the pc's aren't there etc.  This isn't hinky unfair DM Hijinks, it's High level play.  You are messing with Villains who take the time to figure out your past strategies and your abilities who will plan accordingly.  If you don't like that stuff quit whining and play low level games.   Was it unfair hijinks when Sauron Froze the mountains and forced the party to go through Moria?  Of course it was nothing is fair at High Level. 7.  But mostly it's Player overload trying to keep up with spells and abilities and 10 times that overload with DM trying to keep up with spells and abilities of the players and all the baddies and trying to remember which moving parts of the world will notice, care and possibly act when the pc's do things.    It can be overwhelming. 8. My suggestion to anyone wanting to DM a high level game is start at low levels and then play up.  You as the DM will have a much better feel for what everyone can do if you deal with them from 1st level to 15th level than if you just suddenly start at 10th level.  Unless someone cracks what they tried to do with the epic level handbook in  3rd or pathfinders Mythic Paths (which are much better but still really hinky) I don't think High level play will ever be a large part of the games played.</blockquote>

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