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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 8426829" data-attributes="member: 2209">A good summary of the early editions.A few things missed however.In 1e in addition to the PH monk and the fantastic Dragon Magazine monk there was the <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17334/Oriental-Adventures-1e?affiliate_id=17596" target="_blank">1e Oriental Adventures</a> monk which had the unfortunate d4 HD 1e PH scheme but leveraged the cool new martial arts styles from the book.In 2e in addition to the WotC era late <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17402/The-Scarlet-Brotherhood-2e?affiliate_id=17596" target="_blank">2e Greyhawk Scarlet Brotherhood sourcebook</a> which has monks as a priest class with no spells, there is the Fighting-Monk kit from the <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16888/PHBR3-The-Complete-Priests-Handbook-2e?affiliate_id=17596" target="_blank">2e Complete Priest's Handbook</a>, which was a full spellcasting priest who gave up armor and access to a number of spell spheres in return for the unarmed attacks, and to the monk priest class in the 2e Forgotten Realms gods books such as <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17569/Faiths--Avatars-2e?affiliate_id=17596" target="_blank">Faiths & Avatars</a> where they were spellcasting priests with specific spheres but who gave up turning and armor for the unarmored fighting.So in 2e they were often d8 HD priests who were moderate combatants combined with spellcasting similar to clerics. This shifted back to the nonspellcasting model with the Scarlet Brotherhood, but still based on the priest HD chasis. This continued into 3e where their moderate BAB and HD were slightly bolstered by things like evasion and having all saving throws as strong so they were slightly stronger than the warrior type classes on some specific aspects of defense.In Pathfinder 1e this was carried on straight, and then they upgraded them in unchained monks (giving up strong will saves and some class powers for full warrior BAB and HD) and hybrid monk brawlers (similar) to better represent tougher combatants who can take more punishment.In 4e they were classified as strikers, meaning they hit harder than tough defender classes like fighters and paladins, but were frailer with lower hp and defenses. This worked really well conceptually, mobile striker is a great balanced combat niche and is a good rationale for lower hp than tank defenders whose role is designed to suck up and survive attacks to protect others.In 5e they are still based on the 3e model, a cleric/druid chassis but with class powers and no spells. Conceptually I think 5e/3e/AD&D monks should have lots of hp. Their concept is martial artist combatant and hp represents both being tough and surviving combat attacks. Conceptually I expect a martial artist monk to handle being directly physically attacked better than a druid.In 4e I am fine with monks/rangers/rogues being quick hard hitting skirmisher combatants who are more fragile than tank defender concept combatants.</blockquote>

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