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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 8426908" data-attributes="member: 7015698">Except they're not good at either of those. IF, and only IF, you manage to get 16 in both WIS and DEX at level, your AC is on par with chain mail, something a Fighter or Cleric can get with, at worst, 13 in STR. Without a shield. And you need to keep up both WIS and DEX stat bump otherwise you'll fall behind further... AND you don't get magical armor. The Monk isn't dodgy, he's not tanky and his attacks are more like a thousand mosquito bites. What IS the Monk even MEANT to be then?!Stunning Strike comes online at level 5. Without FOB your damage output is just plain bad. And dodge just takes away your bonus attack. Dodging in D&D is like gaining life points in a card game: it doesn't advance your game state, it just makes you lose slower.the Monk HP is RELATIVELY too low compared to other characters in similar situation.What 'other stuff'? What is the Monk 'supposed' to do exactly if it's not bashing faces with his ultimate weapon: his body? Aside from being a Shadow Monk and being impossibly good at stealth, there's not that much there that a Rogue or a Bard isn't automatically better at with their skill bonuses.And that's why 4e had Defender mechanics to make it a lose-lose proposition to try to go after the Rogue...4e gave us Striker Rogues and Monks, people kinda grew accustomed (and in other video game contexts too) for them to be glass canons. In 5e, it seems only casters get to be glass canons.Yup, this old idea of "oh you're bad here, but you're great there!" is just not a good idea when you have no certitude on how much time each pillar will actually consume at the table.People want to rock the dragon by going Dragonball on his dragon balls with their bare feet and hands. It's not hard of a concept to grasp! All this BS "Oh the monk is mobile and can go lock down the casters <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />" is just not a real fiction people care about. It shouldn't be the thing the class is based on... heck, I think it's an emergent property and that the 5e Monk has not been designed with any actual purpose in mind. It's just a pile of legacy features that somehow coalesce into something resembling a Class well enough to fool people. You could replace all the Ki use from the features that use it with 'Proficiency Bonus times per day" and it would have the same result and just reveal how disconnected they all are from each other.</blockquote>

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