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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 2182413" data-attributes="member: 4937">Sure, but even that is not immediately obvious.One doesn't have to look much beyond this thread to see that my 'feelings' on the subject are not at all uncommon.&nbsp; I'm still waiting.Isn't that what common sense is?&nbsp;&nbsp; The difference between 'common sense' and an opinion is only that in one case, the assumptions are well, common.Glad to see that you are conceding my major point in the middle of strongly disagreeing with me.No, but I would consider them unusual.&nbsp; Let's be clear about what we are talking about.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm fairly sure that in some campaigns might occassionally feature an otherworldly portal from time to time before 12th level, though I think that its far from a given that that is common.&nbsp;&nbsp; But that isn't at all what is being discussed here..Read the topic again:&nbsp; I think it's pretty clear that what is being discussed is not the occassional ethereal jaunt or wizardly or haunted demi-plane, but rather campaigns which revolve around planar travel as a central feature of the campaign.&nbsp;&nbsp; I very seriously doubt many such campaigns involve low to medium level characters.No, I assume exactly what you assume, and for the very reason you assume it...Bingo.&nbsp; That goes right back into my point.&nbsp;&nbsp; Most DM's have a hard time managing things when players get that much freedom to travel anywhere they want.&nbsp; It becomes increasely hard to prepare anything in advance and keep track of all the things that might happen or all the things players might do and all the stacked up bonuses and defenses.&nbsp;&nbsp; Managing high level campaigns is often just a head ache, and planar campaigns are more often high level than not.Ok, sure.&nbsp; Conceivably, you could throw a single Imp, Mephit, Hordling, Howler, Hellhound, Rutterkin, or Dretch at the players.&nbsp;&nbsp; But such creatures are the Orcs of the otherworld.&nbsp;&nbsp; You don't have to throw that many of them out before the CR gets reasonably high, so they most often show up in small groups in 'bad places' on the prime.Are you suggesting that that image is an uncommon one?The question becomes though, if they are the stalking grounds of mundane things, why bother?&nbsp; The issue here is not whether or not some people run planar centric campaigns, or even whether some people run planar centric low level campaigns, the issue is why don't most people run planar centric campaigns.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 2182413, member: 4937"] Sure, but even that is not immediately obvious. One doesn't have to look much beyond this thread to see that my 'feelings' on the subject are not at all uncommon. I'm still waiting. Isn't that what common sense is? The difference between 'common sense' and an opinion is only that in one case, the assumptions are well, common. Glad to see that you are conceding my major point in the middle of strongly disagreeing with me. No, but I would consider them unusual. Let's be clear about what we are talking about. I'm fairly sure that in some campaigns might occassionally feature an otherworldly portal from time to time before 12th level, though I think that its far from a given that that is common. [i]But that isn't at all what is being discussed here.[/i]. Read the topic again: I think it's pretty clear that what is being discussed is not the occassional ethereal jaunt or wizardly or haunted demi-plane, but rather [i]campaigns[/i] which revolve around planar travel as a central feature of the campaign. I very seriously doubt many such campaigns involve low to medium level characters. No, I assume exactly what you assume, and for the very reason you assume it... Bingo. That goes right back into my point. Most DM's have a hard time managing things when players get that much freedom to travel anywhere they want. It becomes increasely hard to prepare anything in advance and keep track of all the things that might happen or all the things players might do and all the stacked up bonuses and defenses. Managing high level campaigns is often just a head ache, and planar campaigns are more often high level than not. Ok, sure. Conceivably, you could throw a single Imp, Mephit, Hordling, Howler, Hellhound, Rutterkin, or Dretch at the players. But such creatures are the Orcs of the otherworld. You don't have to throw that many of them out before the CR gets reasonably high, so they most often show up in small groups in 'bad places' on the prime. Are you suggesting that that image is an uncommon one? The question becomes though, if they are the stalking grounds of mundane things, why bother? The issue here is not whether or not some people run planar centric campaigns, or even whether some people run planar centric low level campaigns, the issue is why don't most people run planar centric campaigns. [/QUOTE]

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