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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Psion" data-source="post: 2182521" data-attributes="member: 172">Getting snarky is not going to advance the dialog. Please try to be civil and consider my points. I know I am challenging your perceptions, but please try not to take it personally and consider that I am someone who is actually playing a planar game.I addressed this point when I addressed assuming that the only mode of travel will be high level spells.Common sense, to me, implies that the result has some validity. I would refer to what you present as a common misconception.Is it not planar adventuring? You seem to admit that these sorts of adventures exist in some numbers; their GMs can utilize the same resource that long term planar games would. further, such an adventure often it the launching point for a planar campaign. The length of such a foray is entirely up the the GM and the dichotomy between planar and standard games is not so stark as you suggest. A campaign can include any number, length, or proportion of planar forays.(Indeed, multiple of the ideas Phil's products have the best potential when introduced to an existing prime campaign, so I did not read that presumption in at all.)Additionally, your assertion is that most planar games are 12th+ level. But yet here, you state that you are assuming only games that are entirely planar in nature. Surely, you aren't suggesting that all planar games are games that STARTED above 12th level? That is even more assuredly not the case. I can't say I have ever heard of a single session, adventure or campaign, that started in such circumstances. Even dungeon doesn't do that. Dungeon's high level planar romps start on the prime.Phil did not say so explicitly, and again, I think if you play 1 adventure or 10 in the planes you can use planar material. But even presuming you are correct:You may have your doubts, but I think neither homegrown campaigns nor published campaigns and adventures bear your thoughts on the issue out. Indeed, a vast majority of Planescape adventures were less than 10th level. Does there exist any model for planar campaigning that is as ubiquitous as Planescape?So why would you assume that most planar adventures would be those that would be the most difficult to prepare for? That simply does not follow. This sounds like a good justification for why you would not want to run high level games (and it certainly is a challenge), but it plays precisely against your assertion that all planar games are 12th level and above, for few GMs would want to take on such a challenge.And balors are the great wyrms of the otherworld.I think that illustrates my point there...Don't engage in false dichotomy. The notion I am challenging is that all planar adventuring is level 12+. That does not mean I am saying that all planar adventuring is less than that. Just like prime games, planar games occur at a variety of levels.It's apparent to me that to you, planar adventures are high level affairs, and you don't like high level games, so that is probably why you choose not to play them. But the point here is that the people who actually are playing planar campaigns do not predominantly share your assumptions, so the presumption that actual planar campaigns are predominantly high level is false.Again, thats setting up a false dichotomy. Just because they are not instantly lethal to all PCs does not mean that they are mundane, or even not dangerous. But even at levels quite a bit before 12th, you might find yourselves setting up encounters that might make you question the verisimitude of including many such creatures can exist alongside your typical faux medieval society and natural world. But when you put yourself in another setting, another ecology altogether, all the sudden it is no longer laughable. Of course the sorts of encounters in one plane are far from the only consideration that might make planar adventuring appealing. Settings, environments, societies, and implications of widely different physical laws or situations could alse be reasons a given plane appeals to me. But I could make a widely variant setting like Dark Sun and get the same effect. The crux of any adventuring that is called planar adventuring is that you might encounter multiple such places over the course of the campaign. This gives the GM a great deal of latitude in setting up interesting and fresh situations and challenges for the players.Of course, I sense that this is not really a question you are interested in hearing the answer too. You are obviously happy not planar adventuring and I have no real need to sell you on it. I can only tell you the advantages I see in it. My point here, rather, it to disabuse you of the notion that there is some staggering predominance of actual planar games are high level.</blockquote>

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