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Why Do People Hate Gnomes?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mecheon" data-source="post: 8683454" data-attributes="member: 6801776"><p>'Unique' gives them more archetypal value. There's more roles they can play rather than being pidgeon-holed into one or two</p><p></p><p>Take for example everyone's massive standout race, Tieflings. From the simple origin being "You've got lower-planer blood", massive imagination results because it doesn't go too deep into forcing you into an arcetype. Halflings on the other hand are hodge-podged into their role of "Friendly village type", unless they're the one or two weird halfling types that play against form and are scarely halflings at that point</p><p></p><p></p><p>They have three identities. Just like how elves are everything from "Arrogant lords in towers" to "Forest lovers who'll shoot you on sight" to "Underground demon worshippers". There's no one stereotypical Elf that'll apply to all of that, why should it be to other ones?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Or, y'know, bring in common pop-culture traits. Given they're the small, forest living fey, its a Common Pop Culture Trait they can talk to animals. Plus, they could do it in former editions (As a spell, mind). Is this truly 'gonzo'? You're just expanding upon a seed in previous lore and expanding it into something greater, something that goes along with past characterisation and the pop-culture image of them. They already have 90% of the ability, just extend it to larger creatures</p><p></p><p></p><p>Who said they have to be jokes? Just, ditch the 'their technology doesn't work', which rock gnomes have never had anyway, that's a tinker gnome thing. Blam. No joke. You've a reason for the eminant trapmakers, the Kobolds, to dislike them. Heck, the first big looking into gnomes basically said "Yeah they just have a floating mechanical sky city and have invented powered flight". Krynn may have made the tinker gnome thing popular, but other stuff's taken it</p><p></p><p>I can't see how a technology focused race wouldn't be able to exist in either Greyhawk, with its god of technology and crashed spaceship, or FR.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What do we gain from this? Erasing every part of unique stuff the gnomes have but slapping them with the brush of "Oh yeah they're halflings". Halflings, the race with no origin. Halflings, the race who are eternally Just There. Halflings, the race with no cities of their own, the race with no accomplishments</p><p></p><p>What do we gain from removing gnomes? Because I cannot see any gain. Nothing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So do goblins. Or kobolds. And both of them have more on top of that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So basically the grand difference is just 'Urban' or 'Rural', is what you're saying. That's all the difference the two races have. Compared to elves who've got their whole 'Magical', 'Deep Forest' and 'Underground' split.</p><p></p><p>Those two races are barely a gimmick between them, and you could lose either of them and not lose much. Compare to elves, where if you lost one of those sub-races, there'd be people wailing. And no, I want to inject some fantasy into the fantasy game where any level 1 druid can talk to animals anyway, so the race with fey ties may as well do it as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah yes, like the thematic coherence between the types of elves and their famous "These are the magical ones who live in ivory towers", "These are the ones who live in the forests and will gut you for hurting nature", and "These are the spider loving underground ones"</p><p></p><p>When the most known reason for having subrace splits barely has any coherance between its three most well known, most popular, the three people will gut you for removing, is that really something to strive to? Do we want more subraces as different as the types of elves? Or ones you can barely tell the difference between and seem to be living situations more than anything?</p><p></p><p></p><p>"Identity" is something they have. 'Coherence' I'd argue they have as well. Rocks, forest, underground, all earthy things. Technology is built of metal, found in the earth, so those who delve can experiment more. Plus, well, saying halflings are unique and have a solid identity is... Well, they have an identity. That identity is "Hobbits with the serial numbers filed off" and everyone knows it. Halflings don't have an identity of their own outside of copying off of Tolkein.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Is there really that much support to remove gnomes and fold them into halflings? I'd be interested to see how people handle this because I reckon most folks would probably be of the mind 'No, keep them seperate'. Regardless, what do you even gain from such? Eroding away what makes gnomes, gnomes, and just slapping the traits into halflings, the race who doesn't even have an origin story in all but one setting?</p><p></p><p></p><p>The lack of gnomes and half-orcs was one of the bigger ones.</p><p></p><p></p><p>They're part of D&D. They've been part of D&D for decades. Playable for decades. They're not the most popular, sure, but if we were removing for popularity, know what's below them? Goliaths. Tabaxi. Tortles. Kobolds. Changelings. Goblins. Satyrs. Centaur. Minotaur. Basically every later race except Genasi, and even Genasi are only barely above gnomes. So many races that have been around for a while. Gnomes still tower eternal above them. Should we just remove them? Just strip away all of the sometimes awkward stuff that D&D's had, just to make it neater in the end?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course though, that isn't how goblins are presented (As much as I, a Warcraft fan, do like my tinker goblins). Gnomes are still the small friendly Fey group who have an inventive streak, as likely to be found in the forest or in the workshop. Its an identity that's stood. No, they've not always got the best history of using it, but its something</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mecheon, post: 8683454, member: 6801776"] 'Unique' gives them more archetypal value. There's more roles they can play rather than being pidgeon-holed into one or two Take for example everyone's massive standout race, Tieflings. From the simple origin being "You've got lower-planer blood", massive imagination results because it doesn't go too deep into forcing you into an arcetype. Halflings on the other hand are hodge-podged into their role of "Friendly village type", unless they're the one or two weird halfling types that play against form and are scarely halflings at that point They have three identities. Just like how elves are everything from "Arrogant lords in towers" to "Forest lovers who'll shoot you on sight" to "Underground demon worshippers". There's no one stereotypical Elf that'll apply to all of that, why should it be to other ones? Or, y'know, bring in common pop-culture traits. Given they're the small, forest living fey, its a Common Pop Culture Trait they can talk to animals. Plus, they could do it in former editions (As a spell, mind). Is this truly 'gonzo'? You're just expanding upon a seed in previous lore and expanding it into something greater, something that goes along with past characterisation and the pop-culture image of them. They already have 90% of the ability, just extend it to larger creatures Who said they have to be jokes? Just, ditch the 'their technology doesn't work', which rock gnomes have never had anyway, that's a tinker gnome thing. Blam. No joke. You've a reason for the eminant trapmakers, the Kobolds, to dislike them. Heck, the first big looking into gnomes basically said "Yeah they just have a floating mechanical sky city and have invented powered flight". Krynn may have made the tinker gnome thing popular, but other stuff's taken it I can't see how a technology focused race wouldn't be able to exist in either Greyhawk, with its god of technology and crashed spaceship, or FR. What do we gain from this? Erasing every part of unique stuff the gnomes have but slapping them with the brush of "Oh yeah they're halflings". Halflings, the race with no origin. Halflings, the race who are eternally Just There. Halflings, the race with no cities of their own, the race with no accomplishments What do we gain from removing gnomes? Because I cannot see any gain. Nothing. So do goblins. Or kobolds. And both of them have more on top of that. So basically the grand difference is just 'Urban' or 'Rural', is what you're saying. That's all the difference the two races have. Compared to elves who've got their whole 'Magical', 'Deep Forest' and 'Underground' split. Those two races are barely a gimmick between them, and you could lose either of them and not lose much. Compare to elves, where if you lost one of those sub-races, there'd be people wailing. And no, I want to inject some fantasy into the fantasy game where any level 1 druid can talk to animals anyway, so the race with fey ties may as well do it as well. Ah yes, like the thematic coherence between the types of elves and their famous "These are the magical ones who live in ivory towers", "These are the ones who live in the forests and will gut you for hurting nature", and "These are the spider loving underground ones" When the most known reason for having subrace splits barely has any coherance between its three most well known, most popular, the three people will gut you for removing, is that really something to strive to? Do we want more subraces as different as the types of elves? Or ones you can barely tell the difference between and seem to be living situations more than anything? "Identity" is something they have. 'Coherence' I'd argue they have as well. Rocks, forest, underground, all earthy things. Technology is built of metal, found in the earth, so those who delve can experiment more. Plus, well, saying halflings are unique and have a solid identity is... Well, they have an identity. That identity is "Hobbits with the serial numbers filed off" and everyone knows it. Halflings don't have an identity of their own outside of copying off of Tolkein. Is there really that much support to remove gnomes and fold them into halflings? I'd be interested to see how people handle this because I reckon most folks would probably be of the mind 'No, keep them seperate'. Regardless, what do you even gain from such? Eroding away what makes gnomes, gnomes, and just slapping the traits into halflings, the race who doesn't even have an origin story in all but one setting? The lack of gnomes and half-orcs was one of the bigger ones. They're part of D&D. They've been part of D&D for decades. Playable for decades. They're not the most popular, sure, but if we were removing for popularity, know what's below them? Goliaths. Tabaxi. Tortles. Kobolds. Changelings. Goblins. Satyrs. Centaur. Minotaur. Basically every later race except Genasi, and even Genasi are only barely above gnomes. So many races that have been around for a while. Gnomes still tower eternal above them. Should we just remove them? Just strip away all of the sometimes awkward stuff that D&D's had, just to make it neater in the end? Of course though, that isn't how goblins are presented (As much as I, a Warcraft fan, do like my tinker goblins). Gnomes are still the small friendly Fey group who have an inventive streak, as likely to be found in the forest or in the workshop. Its an identity that's stood. No, they've not always got the best history of using it, but its something [/QUOTE]
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