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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mecheon" data-source="post: 8684070" data-attributes="member: 6801776">Are we really sure that isn't because Halflings have what is by and away one of the most powerful traits in Lucky? Are people rolling halflings because they like Halflings, or are they rolling halflings because Lucky is one of the most powerful skills in the game?Look, if Gnomes are anything, its "Like elves but small" or "Like dwarves but magical". Dwarves and Elves are the go-tos when it comes to Gnomes, not Halflings. Halflings are agile and either sneak-thieves or hobbits, with no inbetweenThe Halfling identity has been "Hey, remember this popular book? We're just doing that and adding nothing (Except Eberron and Athas who did a complete 180 from how Halflings were because they wanted to do something, anything with them other than just hobbits again, and even Eberron couldn't escape that entirely)But you can't deny their three main sub-races are each a visually and stylistically unique one with its own niche. You'd never confuse a drow for a high elf, or a wood elf for a drow.Races of Faerun, Forest Gnomes get Speak with Animals as a SLA. No restrictions on size or type, just flat Speak with Animals.The only loose connecting thread between the types of elves is "Good at magic", "Agile" and "Lives a long time". The ones who worship demons underground are basically entirely unrelated to the forest dwellers.When the go to example on how to make a varied group of subraces that have stood the test of time and keep coming back barely has thematic consistency, is it really a requirement for it to be a thing? Do we want subraces to be distinct, or basically identical? I'd argue we want distinct. Remember, no one cared about Githzerai when they were just "Githyanki but neutral", it wasn't until Planescape: Torment came along and gave them their own thing that they came into the limelightEvery race except humans in this game is tropes. And let's not get started on dwarves because as far as tropes go, dwarves are just a trope. Folks always try to make elves different, but dwarves are always just the same "Grumpy bearded Scotsman" with no changes to that one single worn trope, ever. If we're judging gnomes for being a collection of tropes, what should that say about races who never change from one singular identity, or are too tied to other stuff?A small Fey race that hits those niches the halfling can't, because Halflings are 'the small everyman' per everyone's descriptor of them and too tied to Tolkein to go into little people mythology that elves have left behind, and gnomes embrace. Frankly they should embrace it more, but I've had this "D&D didn't touch fey stuff enough until 4E and suffered for it" theory going for yearsTheir substance is "They're all farmers and like cushy lives". That was.... Basically half the backstory of my fire genasi (The other half is that he's adopeted, doesn't know who his actual parents were and has horrid nightmares of someone trying to escape from the plane of fire, but that's probably fine, probably). Is that really something we can say isn't a gimmick? Because, frankly, its sounding like Halflings have only ever had one gimmick and that gimmick is "You're a hobbit from Middle Earth"See, I'd argue that gnomes are actually the anti-halfling. Halflings are the everyman of everymen. Even among other races, they're the ones expected to be the most down to earth, eternally tied to the portrayal of Hobbits of Lord of the Rings. They're the people who just go on an adventure before retiring after the fact, once their blade and soul is stained enough with blood. They are mundane, that's the power of halflings. They are as mundane as possible in this magical world.Gnomes, on the other hand, are the opposite of this. Even the most basic of them comes from people who talk to animals on the regular, invent spectacular machines, or live and thrive in one of the most hostile places in existence. They've all of the magic elves do, but without the aloofness that comes with their taller cousins. They are the opposite of mundane, seeped in magic, mystery, a stranger world. They embrace the wilder side of it.Merging the two together is a disservice to both of their identities. You're determining that the halfling's mundanity should be destroyed, or the gnome's embrace of the other side.Just as something has to be the most popular, by definition, something must be the least popular. Removing something just results in something else getting that label, like Half-Orcs Plus, well, by that theory.... We'd have removed other stuff long ago. Gnomes were infamous back in 3E for being able to easily get Shadowcaster, so going off that theory, I'd say Halflings would have been more chopped due to how 3E handled things.Except just, pissing off the people who do like gnomes. Like, let's not forget how absolutely vicious the Warlord debates get here. Sure, gnomes aren't the most popular, but they've a dedicated fanbase who will come outDon't forget, there's plenty of people decrying the 5E decision to make Gnolls unplayable and Designated Evil Race. And gnolls are far worse than gnomes in identity issues. If random hyena mooks get that attention, then what would a race that's been its own for the vast majority of the game's lifecycle going to do? Plus see also the pushback on Shadar'Kai becoming an elf subrace, despite Shadar'Kai starting as feyBelow gnomes nowerdays, based on more recent stuff I can find.</blockquote>

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