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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 3036372" data-attributes="member: 151">I've never really run into this, but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the CR system, but with someone finding ways to try and loophole their way through it.  Just like with character multiclassing, some combinations are going to be more or less successful at making a creature more powerful.  The half-fiend template, for example, completely breaks down after a certain number of hit dice.  If your point is that the CR system has holes and flaws, I'm totally in agreement.  But just like many other aspects of D&D and RPGs in general, they are few and far between enough to not detract from it's utilty for me.  And like all things involved with such a huge mental exercise as D&D, a DM is needed to help keep things on track.Of course, it also stands to reason that these creatures may be optimized for one group, but a sititng duck for another.  I know in one of my recent games, the undead fell into one of two categories: road-kill for the cleric or totally unturnable.  There was no in-between.  So even the CR/EL system has to be tempered for individual groups by that group's DM.  Now if that DM is a jerk, there's not much the CR system could do either way. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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