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General Tabletop Discussion
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Why do people still play older editions of D&D? Are they superior to the current one?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7573228" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Nothing before the "but" matters. </p><p>;P</p><p></p><p> It can be hard to see the relation, since 4e was so much more evolved. Like how did T-Rex evolve into hummingbirds? It didn't, the common ancestor was further back, a teeny warm-blooded saurian that diverged into many species of dinos and has living descendants in birds, as well.</p><p></p><p>The commonalities are there, though. 3.0 divested itself of some of the worst needless complexity in AD&D, for instance -- some. Though 4e cut a lot deeper, it didn't just scrap it all and start from scratch -classes, levels, hps, AC, etc … - many a hoary D&Dism remained. 5e pasted much of it back, though, in some cases, only as a veneer.</p><p></p><p> Just one example: Spells Levels. Spell levels could almost be trade dress of D&D, they're so emblematic of the game. Yet, they are an example of needless, complexity, they never /did/ anything, just gated spells by class level - 2nd level wizard spells were gained at 3rd level, they'd've a more intuitively been 3rd level spells. </p><p>3.5 manufactured a function for spell levels: they added to the DC of saving throws. 5e dumped that, and gave spell levels a different, even more arbitrary function in the form of slot-based up-casting. Of course, calculated DCs and up-casting are both, themselves, examples of needless complexity, as well. ::shrug::</p><p></p><p>There was intricate customization in 4e - you had race, class (including builds, alternate class features, hybrids and sub-classes), feats (including multi-classing), backgrounds, and themes. And most of those could be extensively re-skinned one way or another, without appealing DM fiat. The level of customization was generally comparable to 3.x, the main difference being that more of the universe of theoretically possible characters was viable, because balance was so much better. </p><p></p><p>And, sure, 5e, especially if your DM hasn't opted into feats & MCing, is pretty limited, as far a character customization is concerned: that's one of the main ways in which it claims to be rules lite - by taking away a lot of player choice from the get-go. And, reducing player choice ('agency') also key to delivering on DM Empowerment over 3.x/PF/4e/E "Player Entitlement." Of course, it's also just a matter of there being less material published for players than in those editions (or in 2e AD&D for that matter). Still, if you just consider viable options, 5e doesn't present a lot less than 3.x does.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7573228, member: 996"] Nothing before the "but" matters. ;P It can be hard to see the relation, since 4e was so much more evolved. Like how did T-Rex evolve into hummingbirds? It didn't, the common ancestor was further back, a teeny warm-blooded saurian that diverged into many species of dinos and has living descendants in birds, as well. The commonalities are there, though. 3.0 divested itself of some of the worst needless complexity in AD&D, for instance -- some. Though 4e cut a lot deeper, it didn't just scrap it all and start from scratch -classes, levels, hps, AC, etc … - many a hoary D&Dism remained. 5e pasted much of it back, though, in some cases, only as a veneer. Just one example: Spells Levels. Spell levels could almost be trade dress of D&D, they're so emblematic of the game. Yet, they are an example of needless, complexity, they never /did/ anything, just gated spells by class level - 2nd level wizard spells were gained at 3rd level, they'd've a more intuitively been 3rd level spells. 3.5 manufactured a function for spell levels: they added to the DC of saving throws. 5e dumped that, and gave spell levels a different, even more arbitrary function in the form of slot-based up-casting. Of course, calculated DCs and up-casting are both, themselves, examples of needless complexity, as well. ::shrug:: There was intricate customization in 4e - you had race, class (including builds, alternate class features, hybrids and sub-classes), feats (including multi-classing), backgrounds, and themes. And most of those could be extensively re-skinned one way or another, without appealing DM fiat. The level of customization was generally comparable to 3.x, the main difference being that more of the universe of theoretically possible characters was viable, because balance was so much better. And, sure, 5e, especially if your DM hasn't opted into feats & MCing, is pretty limited, as far a character customization is concerned: that's one of the main ways in which it claims to be rules lite - by taking away a lot of player choice from the get-go. And, reducing player choice ('agency') also key to delivering on DM Empowerment over 3.x/PF/4e/E "Player Entitlement." Of course, it's also just a matter of there being less material published for players than in those editions (or in 2e AD&D for that matter). Still, if you just consider viable options, 5e doesn't present a lot less than 3.x does. [/QUOTE]
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Why do people still play older editions of D&D? Are they superior to the current one?
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