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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9006066" data-attributes="member: 82106">Well, I think VB might be giving short shrift to the core 'process of play' stuff, though I agree that in PbtA games following his specific design that process does a lot of 'bringing about the unwelcome'. So his design is VERY 'tight' in that the same 'moving parts' simultaneously achieve several objectives. I think he may simply have not focused on the basic &quot;how do you do this?&quot; part as much. Anyway, to me it seems like classic D&amp;D combat is definitely a 'bring unwelcome news' mechanism! It lets the GM say &quot;you're dead!&quot; without any recriminations (well, hey, its on the key, see room 6: 4 Ethereal Barracudas, see!). Really though its part of the whole reward and punishment for good and bad play mechanism. Classic D&amp;D is a VERY simple game at its core, the monsters are mean, nasty, and hungry, you have to get their gold without being eaten. I'm not sure classic D&amp;D is centered as much on shared imagination, its very close to being a wargame in its most basic parts. Like, as I understand it Blackmoor was NOTHING but the castle and dungeon, the 'town' was just an abstract concept, and there was no 'wilderness', at least not at first. So, sure, there was imagination there, but it was mostly &quot;vividly imagining what the DM told you was there&quot; and then imagining a solution to the problem it posed. D&amp;D clearly still draws heavily from those roots.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9006066, member: 82106"] Well, I think VB might be giving short shrift to the core 'process of play' stuff, though I agree that in PbtA games following his specific design that process does a lot of 'bringing about the unwelcome'. So his design is VERY 'tight' in that the same 'moving parts' simultaneously achieve several objectives. I think he may simply have not focused on the basic "how do you do this?" part as much. Anyway, to me it seems like classic D&D combat is definitely a 'bring unwelcome news' mechanism! It lets the GM say "you're dead!" without any recriminations (well, hey, its on the key, see room 6: 4 Ethereal Barracudas, see!). Really though its part of the whole reward and punishment for good and bad play mechanism. Classic D&D is a VERY simple game at its core, the monsters are mean, nasty, and hungry, you have to get their gold without being eaten. I'm not sure classic D&D is centered as much on shared imagination, its very close to being a wargame in its most basic parts. Like, as I understand it Blackmoor was NOTHING but the castle and dungeon, the 'town' was just an abstract concept, and there was no 'wilderness', at least not at first. So, sure, there was imagination there, but it was mostly "vividly imagining what the DM told you was there" and then imagining a solution to the problem it posed. D&D clearly still draws heavily from those roots. [/QUOTE]

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