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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9011827" data-attributes="member: 82106">Again, consider the baseball example I gave. Many times rules and informal usage of those rules differ somewhat. The actual processes are quite clear if you stop to think about them. You and I both know that GMs call for ability checks and saves. This is fundamentally a consequence of the basic play loop. It need not be repeated everywhere in the rules to be true, and in actual play it is likely that people often assume that they're being asked to make a save, just like in many cases players start tossing dice for ability checks before the GM even got to tell them what the check was. Heck, this is frequently cited as being an annoyance or even source of misplay. Let me make it clear, what I'm saying is: FOR EVERY SITUATION IN THE GAME, there is a rule which will state who will tell us what happens next, or how it will be determined in some fashion. That is NOT THE SAME THING as saying &quot;every rule in the book states which participant uses it.&quot; The RULES IN TOTAL always define this, that is THE ONLY thing the rules actually do at a fundamental level! In fact, I would postulate that anything which does NOT do so, is not really a 'rule'. I think you will find that a LOT of the text in RPG books falls into this category. I did a lot of question answering in the WotC 4e Q&amp;A forum, and we quickly determined that much of the 4e text doesn't really constitute rules, to the level where I actually have a 4e PHB and DMG that have actual effective rules text highlighted, as it made answering questions FAR easier!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9011827, member: 82106"] Again, consider the baseball example I gave. Many times rules and informal usage of those rules differ somewhat. The actual processes are quite clear if you stop to think about them. You and I both know that GMs call for ability checks and saves. This is fundamentally a consequence of the basic play loop. It need not be repeated everywhere in the rules to be true, and in actual play it is likely that people often assume that they're being asked to make a save, just like in many cases players start tossing dice for ability checks before the GM even got to tell them what the check was. Heck, this is frequently cited as being an annoyance or even source of misplay. Let me make it clear, what I'm saying is: FOR EVERY SITUATION IN THE GAME, there is a rule which will state who will tell us what happens next, or how it will be determined in some fashion. That is NOT THE SAME THING as saying "every rule in the book states which participant uses it." The RULES IN TOTAL always define this, that is THE ONLY thing the rules actually do at a fundamental level! In fact, I would postulate that anything which does NOT do so, is not really a 'rule'. I think you will find that a LOT of the text in RPG books falls into this category. I did a lot of question answering in the WotC 4e Q&A forum, and we quickly determined that much of the 4e text doesn't really constitute rules, to the level where I actually have a 4e PHB and DMG that have actual effective rules text highlighted, as it made answering questions FAR easier! [/QUOTE]

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