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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9015028" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I think maybe you're talking about <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/help-me-get-apocalypse-world-and-pbta-games-in-general.689967/" target="_blank">this AW thread</a> where I made several posts about Working Gigs?  If so, the posts in question are <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/help-me-get-apocalypse-world-and-pbta-games-in-general.689967/post-8698598" target="_blank">55</a>, <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/help-me-get-apocalypse-world-and-pbta-games-in-general.689967/post-8701496" target="_blank">216</a>, <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/help-me-get-apocalypse-world-and-pbta-games-in-general.689967/post-8702496" target="_blank">225</a>, <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/help-me-get-apocalypse-world-and-pbta-games-in-general.689967/post-8703220" target="_blank">231</a>, <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/help-me-get-apocalypse-world-and-pbta-games-in-general.689967/post-8704402" target="_blank">237</a>. and <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/help-me-get-apocalypse-world-and-pbta-games-in-general.689967/post-8726341" target="_blank">239</a>. [USER=6787650]@FormerlyHemlock[/USER] , so the reason why Custom Moves in Apocalypse World (and derivative games) don't rise to the level of "new rule creation" is because Custom Moves all use the same template for action resolution that every other move in the game makes;  Fictional trigger equals go to the dice when you trigger the move by doing the outlined thing (eg when you try to impose your will on your gang) within the fiction and go to the dice equals everyone follows the governing structure of results and evinced principles that undergird and govern every other move in the game.* Custom Moves do not move outside of the unifying structure of the game engine.  The expressly work within it.* Custom Moves do not move outside of the unifying agenda and principles that undergird, govern, integrate the game engine, its conversation, and their outputs (which yield play experience).  They expressly work within them.* Custom Moves work to give expression to some aspect of the premise of the game rather than deviate from it or subvert it.Outside of AW, Vincent discusses the matter on his <a href="http://lumpley.com/index.php/anyway/thread/594" target="_blank">fantastic blog post on concentric game design</a> (where Custom Moves are the 4th layer). At the bottom, he calls out what will happen if you don't use Custom Moves or Countdowns for your Threats (which indicates that their deployment is orthodox Apocalypse World and not "making new rules" or working outside of the system):"Don't want to make custom moves and countdowns for your threats all the time? That's cool. You're missing out, but the threat types, impulses, and threat moves have got you covered."</blockquote>

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