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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9015145" data-attributes="member: 71699">Let's work with [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER]'s notion of process complete. DW defines a written procedure for deciding anything not covered by existing structures. D&amp;D also provides a written procedure (e.g. DMG 5.) Dissatisfaction with that procedure doesn't make it not a procedure.[USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] offered the distinction open versus closed systems. Chess is closed because from a game state for any player there is a finite set of next states that the rules if accepted force them to choose among. DW is open because in a myriad of cases (Ritual gold demands being just one) there is no limit to the possible choices players could make. I call this &quot;incomplete&quot; on the grounds that completeness requires everything necessary to be in place, and here (e.g. in deciding what &quot;a lot&quot; entails) each reader must add something to choose their next game state. Physical sports are typically incomplete in this sense, which is seen in their 'that which is not forbidden is permitted' approach to rules (something you touched on earlier). Seeing as the human body and real world physics are part of play it's not possible to write complete rules for physical sports.I'm saying that this quality - of incorporating human imagination into the game system e.g. as linkages from system to fiction - has the same consequence. How much is &quot;a lot&quot;? It's whatever I imagine it to be. What soft or hard move is chosen when Jo prizes a ruby from a statue's eye? It's whatever I imagine. DW supplies constraints on what I ought to imagine, but it does not in such cases supply any list of what I must imagine. The distinction from chess is crystal clear!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 9015145, member: 71699"] Let's work with [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER]'s notion of process complete. DW defines a written procedure for deciding anything not covered by existing structures. D&D also provides a written procedure (e.g. DMG 5.) Dissatisfaction with that procedure doesn't make it not a procedure. [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] offered the distinction open versus closed systems. Chess is closed because from a game state for any player there is a finite set of next states that the rules if accepted force them to choose among. DW is open because in a myriad of cases (Ritual gold demands being just one) there is no limit to the possible choices players could make. I call this "incomplete" on the grounds that completeness requires everything necessary to be in place, and here (e.g. in deciding what "a lot" entails) each reader must [I]add something[/I] to choose their next game state. Physical sports are typically incomplete in this sense, which is seen in their 'that which is not forbidden is permitted' approach to rules (something you touched on earlier). Seeing as the human body and real world physics are part of play it's not possible to write complete rules for physical sports. I'm saying that this quality - of incorporating human imagination into the game system e.g. as linkages from system to fiction - has the same consequence. How much is "a lot"? It's whatever I imagine it to be. What soft or hard move is chosen when Jo prizes a ruby from a statue's eye? It's whatever I imagine. DW supplies constraints on what I ought to imagine, but it does not in such cases supply any list of what I [I]must[/I] imagine. The distinction from chess is crystal clear! [/QUOTE]

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