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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Enrahim2" data-source="post: 9021526" data-attributes="member: 7039850">Yes, these two paragraphs matches up. (ii) enables the gameplay of making informed pre adventure choices. (iii) Is about the immersive aestetics of a continous in fiction experience unbroken by undue meta game exposition. The fundation for my thesis was that this is qualities that indeed is part of what brings the players back to the table for session after session. If you reject this thesis then indeed my proposed connection to rule zero falls appart for this particular situation.To try to clarify the connection. The claim was that GM s are not really playing a game if a wide interpretation of rule 0 is in effect. I agreed to that claim if one assume that the goal of the GM were taken to be the standard proposed goal of RPGing. However when GMing I feel like I am playing a game, but on introspection what I try to acheive is different from when I am a player. As a player what I normally focus to acheive is clearly changes in fiction states to states I am liking, like make sure the bad guy do not do more bad stuff, and retrieve lost priceless artifacts to the betterment of humanity. And the means to acheive that is the application of my character's abilities, which is highly inefficient compared to free god-like narration.However as a GM my focus is elsewhere. Most of the effort and challenge is in what I would consider the pure "administrative" tasks associated with running and refereeing the game. However there are times there arises situations where I have a goal state in mind that I want to acheive, but feel really challenging even with full ability to dictate the fiction. Getting the players to eagerly enter the dungeon is one such example. Another classic is dropping a new clue when the players are stuck on the mystery while still making the players feel like they deserved it. Another is how to offer an out in a way that do not cheapen the game for the players when they have gotten in over their heads.All of these are challenges a GM can face in a game where rule zero is not in effect as well. For other games one or more of these might not be part of the GM gameplay at all, as the rules are dictating how to handle these situations to the point where applying it become purely administrative. The point is that this indeed is situations that come up in play where the property that the player state of mind is an essential part of the goal make even the mean of dictating the fiction not a fully effective mean to acheive those goals. And as such, if these goals are accepted as a valid basis for play, the GM can still be considered to be playing a game even with full rule zero in effect.</blockquote>

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