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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9027315" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I don't have time for a considerable amount of virtual ink, but I agree with [USER=7027139]@loverdrive[/USER] 's "hardship is the point" when it comes to Apocalypse World and the new Warring States Japan PBtA game Thousand Arrows specifically, but not across all PBtA games generally.  I think I can sum it up with a few thoughts:* "Be a fan of the player characters" means subtly different things depending upon the PBtA game in question.* Not all PBtA games have a substantial G (Gamism, per The Forge) element that governs the throughline of play or perhaps even any G at all; eg AW and 1KA are Big N (Narrativism) and very little G (and certainly no G of consequence in terms of the throughline of play).  This has significant consequence on the above bullet point, the below bullet point, and design generally.* For AW and 1KA specifically, the GM relentlessly aggressing the PCs is the point.  That is "being a fan of the player characters."  If you don't relentlessly aggress the player characters, if you don't relentlessly provoke them ruthlessly by demanding big moments of self-confrontation (and inevitable hold 'em or fold 'em or change), then you aren't "being a fan of the player characters."  Therefore, you aren't doing your job (as GM).* Games like Dungeon World and Stonetop are kindred, but (a) the have a substantial G element to their play (and creating meaty decision-spaces that demand of players along those lines is a corresponding substantial part of GMing) so therefore, while you are absolutely provoking the PCs and testing their dramatic/thematic/relationship portfolios, (b) the "relentlessly aggress" component of GMing is throttled back to a degree (not in proportion....but to a degree).* To tie a bow on it, "(relentless) hardship is the point" in GMing AW and 1KA while "hardship is a component" of GMing a game like DW or ST.TLDR: PBtA games have enough novelty amongst them that I don't think we can talk about them as a coalition of games (except in a general sense like "play to find out what happens" binds most of them together with a few exceptions perhaps).  And that novelty appears to be increasing with time and iteration.</blockquote>

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