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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9027469" data-attributes="member: 7026617">There's almost always two sides of these things.&nbsp; That said, the fact people on the other side were also obnoxious does not change the obnoxiousness present on the first.&nbsp; And there was absolutely a period when in public spaces that Vampire fans were popping up and sneering at trad fans (and as I noted, this wasn't limited to just D&amp;D players) when there had been no apparent trigger to that other than non-Vampire fans being present.&nbsp; Now that may have just been a kneejerk urge to get the first hit in when they figured as soon as they mentioned their game they were going to start attracting comments about &quot;lame goth fanboys&quot;, but the problem with that is that's a snowballing problem; once you start taking shots across the bow, you tend to shoot back even if you otherwise wouldn't care and they weren't, per se, aimed at you (but they were unselective enough it would be hard to tell).I pretty quickly lost patience (and an examination of my posting history will show its never returned on this subject) with explaining that, no, I really did want a working game in with my roleplaying and that people who thought that made me confused and/or out of touch could go do something unmentionable to themselves, and that shouldn't have been necessary just because people didn't share my gamist streak.(Of course the irony here was that Vampire was still chock-a-block full of game mechanics (not, in my opinion, very good ones in a number of areas, but that's neither here nor there) so often people were championing Vampire the way people often championed AD&amp;D in the past--the game that existed in their head, not actually the one on paper).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 9027469, member: 7026617"] There's almost always two sides of these things. That said, the fact people on the other side were also obnoxious does not change the obnoxiousness present on the first. And there was absolutely a period when in public spaces that Vampire fans were popping up and sneering at trad fans (and as I noted, this wasn't limited to just D&D players) when there had been no apparent trigger to that other than non-Vampire fans being present. Now that may have just been a kneejerk urge to get the first hit in when they figured as soon as they mentioned their game they were going to start attracting comments about "lame goth fanboys", but the problem with that is that's a snowballing problem; once you start taking shots across the bow, you tend to shoot back even if you otherwise wouldn't care and they weren't, per se, aimed at you (but they were unselective enough it would be hard to tell). I pretty quickly lost patience (and an examination of my posting history will show its never returned on this subject) with explaining that, no, I really did want a working game in with my roleplaying and that people who thought that made me confused and/or out of touch could go do something unmentionable to themselves, and that shouldn't have been necessary just because people didn't share my gamist streak. (Of course the irony here was that Vampire was still chock-a-block full of game mechanics (not, in my opinion, very good ones in a number of areas, but that's neither here nor there) so often people were championing Vampire the way people often championed AD&D in the past--the game that existed in their head, not actually the one on paper). [/QUOTE]

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