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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9029000" data-attributes="member: 6696971">An invitation to a Rorschach Test (or steeped analysis...whatever is your mode of doing); see the bottom:* I've been a martial artist (grappler) most of my life.&nbsp; I've played basketball most of my life and I played football for a large percentage of it (artificial &quot;squad based combat&quot; sort of play featuring serious physical contact, feints/parries/ripostes, various forms of grappling, distance control, action denial, and area denial).&nbsp; I've been involved in an embarrassingly large number of physical fights in my life, three of which involved 3 plus people (one a legitimate &quot;Donnybrook&quot;); nearly all of these associated with the basketball court or some sort of escalation from physical sport.* When I GMed D&amp;D 4e for the first time (and every time since) I was taken aback by how the cognitive loop that one undertakes when engaging with its conceived and executed Defender mechanics (on either side of the equation) was as &quot;like the real thing as a TTRPG can get.&quot;&nbsp; It felt (and feels) quite immersive to me.* Come to find out that there is a very vocal contingent of TTRPG players that &quot;boo hissed&quot; at these 4e Defender mechanics.&nbsp; &quot;Gamey nonsense&quot; was a typical refrain....So, is the type of system architecture that makes up the suite of 4e Defender mechanics (and invites the associated cognitive loop) Simulationist/Immersionist?&nbsp; Or are they &quot;Gamey nonsense&quot; (or some other label)?&nbsp; Or are they neither/something else?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 9029000, member: 6696971"] An invitation to a Rorschach Test (or steeped analysis...whatever is your mode of doing); see the bottom: * I've been a martial artist (grappler) most of my life. I've played basketball most of my life and I played football for a large percentage of it (artificial "squad based combat" sort of play featuring serious physical contact, feints/parries/ripostes, various forms of grappling, distance control, action denial, and area denial). I've been involved in an embarrassingly large number of physical fights in my life, three of which involved 3 plus people (one a legitimate "Donnybrook"); nearly all of these associated with the basketball court or some sort of escalation from physical sport. * When I GMed D&D 4e for the first time (and every time since) I was taken aback by how the cognitive loop that one undertakes when engaging with its conceived and executed Defender mechanics (on either side of the equation) was as "like the real thing as a TTRPG can get." It felt (and feels) quite immersive to me. * Come to find out that there is a very vocal contingent of TTRPG players that "boo hissed" at these 4e Defender mechanics. "Gamey nonsense" was a typical refrain. ... So,[I] is the type of system architecture that makes up the suite of 4e Defender mechanics (and invites the associated cognitive loop) Simulationist/Immersionist? Or are they "Gamey nonsense" (or some other label)? Or are they neither/something else?[/I] [/QUOTE]

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