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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9033035" data-attributes="member: 42582">If there are benchmarked difficulties, then I don't think this is so - because the inference from framing to benchmarks is transparent.The upshot of this is that the players can often contribute to setting the obstacle, by helping everyone at the table arrive at a shared conception of the framing.This makes no sense to me.[USER=7027139]@loverdrive[/USER]'s claim about player skill is about control over parameters - in a certain sort of D&amp;D play, that is all under the GM's control.Whether or not that fact about control entails the conclusion about skilled play seems to me to have no bearing on what &quot;no myth&quot; play looks like.The point about no myth play is that transparency of framing, and of consequence narration, means that by definition concealment is impossible. The GM can't hide the fact that they're not being transparent in their decision-making. The other participants will notice the lack of transparency - eg that a hard move has been made although the player succeeded at their roll.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9033035, member: 42582"] If there are benchmarked difficulties, then I don't think this is so - because the inference from [I]framing[/I] to [I]benchmarks[/I] is transparent. The upshot of this is that the players can often contribute to setting the obstacle, by helping everyone at the table arrive at a shared conception of the framing. This makes no sense to me. [USER=7027139]@loverdrive[/USER]'s claim about player skill is about [I]control over parameters[/I] - in a certain sort of D&D play, that is all under the GM's control. Whether or not that fact about control entails the conclusion about skilled play seems to me to have no bearing on what "no myth" play looks like. The point about no myth play is that transparency of framing, and of consequence narration, means that by definition concealment is impossible. The GM can't hide the fact that they're not being transparent in their decision-making. The other participants will notice the lack of transparency - eg that a hard move has been made although the player succeeded at their roll. [/QUOTE]

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