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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 9040240" data-attributes="member: 6787650">The existence of the Wild West might be remarkable, but it's something that happened to and among other people.Deciding to move to the Wild West isn't something that &quot;happens to you&quot;. Proactive, not reactive.So clearly it cannot be A or B.B is both continual and related, and D is neither of those things. It can't be B.But no remarkable events are &quot;happening to&quot; them, so it cannot be A. And even if it were A, that would disprove your argument about A being no more realistic than B!If I'm a Roman citizen in 100 A.D. and I go to Rome and try to kill the Emperor, interesting things are going to happen to me, but my probable crucifixion and death is not improbable or unrealistic! I can't give a modern example due to ENWorld rules (even the Roman example risks Umbran's wrath IME) but hopefully you get the gist. Making interesting things happen around you by doing interesting things does not require becoming a Weirdness Magnet the way B does.Your words: &quot;If they aren't proactive, then things are still going to happen to them because it's a game and we all want stuff to happen. Wherever they go, they run into significant events, unrelated to their own agenda.&quot;Can you see how much your argument relies upon the false dichotomy that excludes C, D, and E from existing? You even said it yourself: &quot;If [not E], then... [unrealistic things will happen].&quot; You're implicitly acknowledging that E (no improbable events occurring except through player instigation) is more realistic than B (improbable coincidences related to player character's interests and themes, i.e. becoming a Personalized Weirdness Magnet).A/B is a false dichotomy and should not be used to unilaterally dismiss realism as a genuine concern that some people have. If you do, you will never understand why people have that concern. You'll be talking to yourself about a riddle in a language you've forbidden yourself to learn.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 9040240, member: 6787650"] The existence of the Wild West might be remarkable, but it's something that happened to and among other people. Deciding to move to the Wild West isn't something that "happens to you". Proactive, not reactive. So clearly it cannot be A or B. B is both continual and related, and D is neither of those things. It can't be B. But no remarkable events are "happening to" them, so it cannot be A. And even if it were A, that would disprove your argument about A being no more realistic than B! If I'm a Roman citizen in 100 A.D. and I go to Rome and try to kill the Emperor, interesting things are going to happen to me, but my probable crucifixion and death is not improbable or unrealistic! I can't give a modern example due to ENWorld rules (even the Roman example risks Umbran's wrath IME) but hopefully you get the gist. Making interesting things happen around you by doing interesting things does not require becoming a Weirdness Magnet the way B does. Your words: "If they aren't proactive, then things are still going to happen to them because it's a game and we all want stuff to happen. Wherever they go, they run into significant events, unrelated to their own agenda." Can you see how much your argument relies upon the false dichotomy that excludes C, D, and E from existing? You even said it yourself: "If [not E], then... [unrealistic things will happen]." You're implicitly acknowledging that E (no improbable events occurring except through player instigation) is more realistic than B (improbable coincidences related to player character's interests and themes, i.e. becoming a Personalized Weirdness Magnet). A/B is a false dichotomy and should not be used to unilaterally dismiss realism as a genuine concern that some people have. If you do, you will never understand why people have that concern. You'll be talking to yourself about a riddle in a language you've forbidden yourself to learn. [/QUOTE]

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