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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9043150" data-attributes="member: 6779310">I don't agree. Many people are coming in via groups using AWE/PBTA, and a lot of 90's and 00's players came in via WWG's WoD systems. Most of that later might be doing sim, but when one starts with VTM 1E, there are constant reminders to allow for various narrative bypasses - both NumDice&gt;Diff &amp;&amp; no roll = 1 Success, and spend 1 WP to add +1 success to either method (roll or NumDice &gt; diff). Most D&amp;D players are getting game first, not sim-first, especially given the &quot;build optimizers&quot; subset of players, who are maybe 20-25% of the various people I've had show up at table when running D&amp;D AL tables. Especially since 5e basically discounts the simulationist agenda... the bounded accuracy is gamism. The balanced encounters are gamism. Many of those are gamist, as the intent is to be interesting challenges, not of need sensible for the setting.Similarly encounter tables. How they're set up affects the utility for sim.Hexcrawling and random encounter tables can be simulationist, or can be procedural gamist. Traveller is largely &quot;because they make good tools for stories.&quot; (very close paraphrase of Marc Miller.) They're there for a dramatic utility... tho' many assume them sim and others assume them gamist. Really, Traveller is a pretty middle of the triangle game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 9043150, member: 6779310"] I don't agree. Many people are coming in via groups using AWE/PBTA, and a lot of 90's and 00's players came in via WWG's WoD systems. Most of that later might be doing sim, but when one starts with VTM 1E, there are constant reminders to allow for various narrative bypasses - both NumDice>Diff && no roll = 1 Success, and spend 1 WP to add +1 success to either method (roll or NumDice > diff). Most D&D players are getting game first, not sim-first, especially given the "build optimizers" subset of players, who are maybe 20-25% of the various people I've had show up at table when running D&D AL tables. Especially since 5e basically discounts the simulationist agenda... the bounded accuracy is gamism. The balanced encounters are gamism. Many of those are gamist, as the intent is to be interesting challenges, not of need sensible for the setting. Similarly encounter tables. How they're set up affects the utility for sim. Hexcrawling and random encounter tables can be simulationist, or can be procedural gamist. Traveller is largely "because they make good tools for stories." (very close paraphrase of Marc Miller.) They're there for a dramatic utility... tho' many assume them sim and others assume them gamist. Really, Traveller is a pretty middle of the triangle game. [/QUOTE]

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