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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9074241" data-attributes="member: 42582">What you describe is related to dramatic themes. But it doesn't sound like narrativist play.From <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/15/" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/narr_essay.html" target="_blank">here</a>:In Simulationist play, morality cannot be imposed by the player or, except as the representative of the imagined world, by the GM. Theme is already part of the cosmos; it's not produced by metagame decisions. Morality, when it's involved, is "how it is" in the game-world, and even its shifts occur along defined, engine-driven parameters. The GM and players buy into this framework in order to play at all. The point is that one can care about and enjoy complex issues, changing protagonists, and themes in both sorts of play, Narrativism and Simulationism. The difference lies in the point and contributions of literal instances of play; its operation and social feedback. **** There cannot be any "the story" during Narrativist play, because to have such a thing (fixed plot or pre-agreed theme) is to remove the whole point: the creative moments of addressing the issue(s). . . . Narrativist Premises focus on producing Theme via events during play. Theme is defined as a value-judgment or point that may be inferred from the in-game events.A game can be set up to "toggle" in a certain fashion: The Green Knight RPG is an interesting example, where a player has to play laregly honourably (as defined by the system and scenario) for the first three scenes, in order to be in a position to have a chance at the last scene; but then in the last scene can choose which way to go, thereby (and perhaps inconsistently, in terms of characterisation) displaying their own, preferred sense of the situation.But that is not simultaneity.We could also compare (say) Greed and Steel in BW. The need to test on Steel is not chosen by the player - it's a premise of the game that only the most brutal and cold-hearted can (say) kill their true love without a moment of hesitation. Greed can trigger a Steel check - but it is the player's choice how to respond, and in particular whether to act with I must have it. That choice is the moment at which the player manifests a "value-judgement or point that may be inferred from in-game events", and that is "produced by metagame decisions" rather than just being "'how it is' in the game-world".The structure of Elven Grief is less stark, but in this case it is connected to the Deeds of Grief and the use of Laments. Those are the moments of player choice.</blockquote>

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