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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 9074684" data-attributes="member: 85555">I don't. And I am not. I am just responding to what Pemerton and Manbearcat are describing and trying to discern the difference. I may well be incorrect in my assessment. But my main point really is they are describing sim in a way that I don't think Rob nor I play RPGs (something about their break down of it seems very off to me). I am totally open to my breakdown of their style being off too. I am trying to respond to statements like &quot;Narrativism, as per its other label &quot;story now&quot;, is premised on the avoidance of such pre-loading. Players get to make their choice in the moment; the GM gets to riff on that; back-and-forth.&quot;This happens in simulationist play as well is my point. The only limit is you generally are stuck doing it through your character in a manner that is diegetic (though again this is a very sloppy generalization). I am not implying that the opposite is true for narrative play (not being an expert narrative style GM or player, I don't think I can truly say what the parameters of that style are). My point is more about the bolded also largely being how most sandbox games in a living world are run. I was just careful to identity where the limits generally are around the riffing.&nbsp; And to be clear, I think characters matter in both types of games. Even in games with metaresources or ones where you aren't limited to acting through your character (for example in Hillfolk where what your character says can become true in the setting), character is still central to play (which I think makes sense since characters are essential to a good story). Now I may misunderstand what preloading means. But reading his explanation it just didn't seem to really match our style of play that much (or at least it described it in a way that minimized the amount of riffing and improv that arises)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 9074684, member: 85555"] I don't. And I am not. I am just responding to what Pemerton and Manbearcat are describing and trying to discern the difference. I may well be incorrect in my assessment. But my main point really is they are describing sim in a way that I don't think Rob nor I play RPGs (something about their break down of it seems very off to me). I am totally open to my breakdown of their style being off too. I am trying to respond to statements like "[I]Narrativism[/I], as per its other label "story now", is premised on the avoidance of such pre-loading. [B]Players get to make their choice in the moment; the GM gets to riff on that; back-and-forth[/B]." This happens in simulationist play as well is my point. The only limit is you generally are stuck doing it through your character in a manner that is diegetic (though again this is a very sloppy generalization). I am not implying that the opposite is true for narrative play (not being an expert narrative style GM or player, I don't think I can truly say what the parameters of that style are). My point is more about the bolded also largely being how most sandbox games in a living world are run. I was just careful to identity where the limits generally are around the riffing. And to be clear, I think characters matter in both types of games. Even in games with metaresources or ones where you aren't limited to acting through your character (for example in Hillfolk where what your character says can become true in the setting), character is still central to play (which I think makes sense since characters are essential to a good story). Now I may misunderstand what preloading means. But reading his explanation it just didn't seem to really match our style of play that much (or at least it described it in a way that minimized the amount of riffing and improv that arises) [/QUOTE]

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