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Message: <blockquote data-quote="robertsconley" data-source="post: 9078693" data-attributes="member: 13383">That sound reasonable but however you are still missing the point.  Sandbox campaigns were played from the earliest days of the hobby. Elements that made up these campaigns were used in other styles in varying combinations. My point is that until the mid-2000s the idea that the concepts used together to create sandbox campaigns was not seen as something distinct. Something that together could be a topic of conversation about the hobby. This is unlike the railroad which was recognized early on and was a topic of criticism and commentary. The style of RPGs was emerging in the late 80s as represented by Ars Magica and Vampire likewise subject to commentary. However, the bundle of concepts behind sandbox campaigns was not recognized as distinct until the mid-2000s. Nothing in my observation contradicts your experiences. I find it strange that you are arguing strongly about the use of literary terms in the work of Baker and Edwards when you have examples such as this. -Burning Wheel, Gold; Page 11.Found in the discussion of the Flow of the Game in the Hub and Wheel chapter.Then you felt the need to reiterate Vincent Baker's view on the importance of the rules. Which leaves me wondering, "Why?" I see no contradiction in Baker and Edwards using literary terms and using rules.  They both say numerous time point of their work is to help people run tabletop roleplaying campaigns.Focusing on this avoids the main thesis that I made <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/why-do-rpgs-have-rules.697430/post-9076892" target="_blank">with my post</a>. That the concepts and ideas based on Baker's and Edward's work, that were talked about in the posts prior to mine are irrelevant to a Sandbox Campaign.  The concept and ideas that lie behind "Story Now" RPGs are based on their (and others) work.And to be clear just as you cleverly injected the word playTo make it seem I was implying something more than I was to those reading this thread.I am not saying that none of the concepts and ideas behind "Story Now" RPGs are useless to sandbox campaigns. The central idea behind my thesis is that sandbox campaigns have different considerations than "Story Now" and other types of roleplaying campaigns. With means things like prep and how it played out are approached differently. Even when some elements are shared. It is how elements of Sandbox Campaigns are used together that makes it distinct from other types of campaigns. Just as the elements of "Story Now" RPGs and campaigns are used together makes them distinct enough for you to create a unique category in your mind.</blockquote>

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