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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9264345" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I think the line of questioning sometimes is probably too atomized, at other times too abstracted, and at other times still lacking integrated context.&nbsp; I think the best way to approach the question is to get specific; specific games, specific moments of play.Take D&amp;D4e as an example:* When I'm framing obstacles in Skill Challenges, I am absolutely not a player.&nbsp; My concerns (and often my &quot;play pieces) are structural, systemic, and meta.* When I'm foregrounding and meting out decision-points related to consequences in Skill Challenges, I am absolutely not a player.&nbsp; My concerns (and often my &quot;play pieces) are structural, systemic, and meta.* When I'm setting up a battlefield array for a combat, I am absolutely not a player.&nbsp; My concerns are structural, systemic, and meta.* When I'm managing a Minion NPC in a combat, its probably 90/10 split whereby I'm performing the rote, script-based operations of a Blackjack dealer (minions are designed to reduce cognitive overhead and handling times for GMs by optimizing for ease-of-use and the intersection of thematic, genre-based conventions married to game engine chassis) with the extremely remote number of Minion turns being underwritten by minor decision-points that share DNA with &quot;playerdom.&quot;* With Standard NPCs its probably closer to 50/50.&nbsp; With Elites its probably closer to 20/80.* Ok, finally we arrive at Solo NPCs in 4e combat.&nbsp; Complex resource suites, refresh dynamics, and action economy that interact in complex ways with the battlefield array, Team Monster, and Team NPC.&nbsp; Here?&nbsp; Here I am about as close to &quot;playerdom&quot; as it gets in all of TTRPG-land.&nbsp; Throw in a nested Skill Challenge related to this Solo NPC's motivations and that &quot;GM as player&quot; coefficient amplifies further.[HR][/HR]But this analysis only holds for D&amp;D 4e.&nbsp; The analysis would be different for any given game one GMs.For instance, due to the nature of the conflict resolution mechanics and how Towns and the overarching setting and premise are constructed, it feels (for the GM...not sure player-side) much moreso like the GM is performing as a player might.&nbsp; Its not however (full-fledged &quot;playerdom&quot;), because there are still significant meta-agenda (at every moment, drive play toward conflict and escalate, escalate, escalate; meaning at any opportunity that is remotely feasible) concerns that I have to fold into my decision-tree as I manage the unfolding crises, NPC motivations, the fiction I marry to my Raises and Sees, and the ways I handle my dice pools.GMing Dogs in the Vineyard is a very different beast in many ways (though kindred in others such as &quot;follow the players lead about what is important&quot; and &quot;cut to the action&quot;) than D&amp;D 4e both experientially and obviously process-wise.&nbsp; Hense, the broad zoom question around &quot;is a GM a player&quot; and the moment-to-moment interrogation of that same question is going to land differently.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 9264345, member: 6696971"] I think the line of questioning sometimes is probably too atomized, at other times too abstracted, and at other times still lacking integrated context. I think the best way to approach the question is to get specific; specific games, specific moments of play. Take D&D4e as an example: * When I'm framing obstacles in Skill Challenges, I am absolutely not a player. My concerns (and often my "play pieces) are structural, systemic, and meta. * When I'm foregrounding and meting out decision-points related to consequences in Skill Challenges, I am absolutely not a player. My concerns (and often my "play pieces) are structural, systemic, and meta. * When I'm setting up a battlefield array for a combat, I am absolutely not a player. My concerns are structural, systemic, and meta. * When I'm managing a Minion NPC in a combat, its probably 90/10 split whereby I'm performing the rote, script-based operations of a Blackjack dealer (minions are designed to reduce cognitive overhead and handling times for GMs by optimizing for ease-of-use and the intersection of thematic, genre-based conventions married to game engine chassis) with the extremely remote number of Minion turns being underwritten by minor decision-points that share DNA with "playerdom." * With Standard NPCs its probably closer to 50/50. With Elites its probably closer to 20/80. * Ok, finally we arrive at Solo NPCs in 4e combat. Complex resource suites, refresh dynamics, and action economy that interact in complex ways with the battlefield array, Team Monster, and Team NPC. Here? Here I am about as close to "playerdom" as it gets in all of TTRPG-land. Throw in a nested Skill Challenge related to this Solo NPC's motivations and that "GM as player" coefficient amplifies further. [HR][/HR] But this analysis only holds for D&D 4e. The analysis would be different for any given game one GMs. For instance, due to the nature of the conflict resolution mechanics and how Towns and the overarching setting and premise are constructed, it [I]feels (for the GM...not sure player-side) much moreso like the GM is performing as a player might[/I]. Its not however (full-fledged "playerdom"), because there are still significant meta-agenda ([I]at every moment, drive play toward conflict[/I] and [I]escalate, escalate, escalate[/I]; meaning at any opportunity that is remotely feasible) concerns that I have to fold into my decision-tree as I manage the unfolding crises, NPC motivations, the fiction I marry to my Raises and Sees, and the ways I handle my dice pools. GMing Dogs in the Vineyard is a very different beast in many ways (though kindred in others such as "follow the players lead about what is important" and "cut to the action") than D&D 4e both experientially and obviously process-wise. Hense, the broad zoom question around "is a GM a player" and the moment-to-moment interrogation of that same question is going to land differently. [/QUOTE]

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