Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why do RPGs have rules?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 9264382" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>In some forms of play I believe a GM, or another player, may introduce the unwelcome and unwanted via principles alone. This mostly works fine when comes to a GM as a neutral referee or a GM as a motivated storyteller because the things they want, and desire, are not in conflict with sustaining conflict in play.</p><p></p><p>However other forms of play require players and/or GMs to actively act against what they should desire in order to sustain meaningful play. This is possible, but highly fraught and fragile. Freeform play with extended casts that have intersecting personal narratives require a great deal of empathy and interest in other players' characters to be functional and worthwhile.</p><p></p><p>As part of my posts in my Vampire game it is important that my character (Laurent) provokes and sometimes actively acts against other players' characters interests in order for there to be conflicts to resolve. In order to know how to go about the provocation I need to be interested and invested in the other characters. Without the requisite empathy I cannot do the things the other players need me to do for the momentum of play to carry forward.</p><p></p><p>In doing so I (Campbell the player, not Laurent) will develop a level of fondness that means I do not want bad things to happen to these characters even when they must. So then having Laurent set up a surprise meeting for Alain Ferrier becomes something I do not want for Alain. So, it then becomes natural for me over time to have Laurent become more amenable to Alain, but then play becomes more and more conflict neutral. We can continue on in a principled it becomes and more and more difficult over time.</p><p></p><p>There are a few ways around this.</p><p></p><p>1. We can step back and take more of a writer's room approach and not be as directly invested in individual characters, instead become invested in the drama. That's generally what I find happens in most freeform groups. You start engaging more in a shared novel with a lot of negotiation of how it works. That's mostly how we are handling this first phase of the game.</p><p></p><p>2. You introduce mechanics that reinforce character and let that sustain the momentum. Stuff like Virtue, Vice, Nature, Demeanor in Vampire that gives you resources when acting in a manner befitting your character in order to sustain the momentum of play that way.</p><p></p><p>3. You introduce mechanics that help to sustain the momentum of play on their own like AW Basic Moves.</p><p></p><p>Basically, once we need to desire things to maintain play that also cause us to act against preserving the momentum of play, we are in a position where we are constantly having to rely on Willpower and introduce things that unwanted and unwelcomed by ourselves. In situations where we like and value our fellow players (and their characters) this can inordinately fraught.</p><p></p><p>A lot of what Vincent talks about comes from this place where I as a player adore your character and want good things for them, but if play is going to continue bad things must come their way at least intermittently. He speaks at length about how that was a struggle in their Ars Magica game. That they grew to like each other's characters too much. That play started to become more conflict neutral.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 9264382, member: 16586"] In some forms of play I believe a GM, or another player, may introduce the unwelcome and unwanted via principles alone. This mostly works fine when comes to a GM as a neutral referee or a GM as a motivated storyteller because the things they want, and desire, are not in conflict with sustaining conflict in play. However other forms of play require players and/or GMs to actively act against what they should desire in order to sustain meaningful play. This is possible, but highly fraught and fragile. Freeform play with extended casts that have intersecting personal narratives require a great deal of empathy and interest in other players' characters to be functional and worthwhile. As part of my posts in my Vampire game it is important that my character (Laurent) provokes and sometimes actively acts against other players' characters interests in order for there to be conflicts to resolve. In order to know how to go about the provocation I need to be interested and invested in the other characters. Without the requisite empathy I cannot do the things the other players need me to do for the momentum of play to carry forward. In doing so I (Campbell the player, not Laurent) will develop a level of fondness that means I do not want bad things to happen to these characters even when they must. So then having Laurent set up a surprise meeting for Alain Ferrier becomes something I do not want for Alain. So, it then becomes natural for me over time to have Laurent become more amenable to Alain, but then play becomes more and more conflict neutral. We can continue on in a principled it becomes and more and more difficult over time. There are a few ways around this. 1. We can step back and take more of a writer's room approach and not be as directly invested in individual characters, instead become invested in the drama. That's generally what I find happens in most freeform groups. You start engaging more in a shared novel with a lot of negotiation of how it works. That's mostly how we are handling this first phase of the game. 2. You introduce mechanics that reinforce character and let that sustain the momentum. Stuff like Virtue, Vice, Nature, Demeanor in Vampire that gives you resources when acting in a manner befitting your character in order to sustain the momentum of play that way. 3. You introduce mechanics that help to sustain the momentum of play on their own like AW Basic Moves. Basically, once we need to desire things to maintain play that also cause us to act against preserving the momentum of play, we are in a position where we are constantly having to rely on Willpower and introduce things that unwanted and unwelcomed by ourselves. In situations where we like and value our fellow players (and their characters) this can inordinately fraught. A lot of what Vincent talks about comes from this place where I as a player adore your character and want good things for them, but if play is going to continue bad things must come their way at least intermittently. He speaks at length about how that was a struggle in their Ars Magica game. That they grew to like each other's characters too much. That play started to become more conflict neutral. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why do RPGs have rules?
Top