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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tk32" data-source="post: 7024437" data-attributes="member: 6871723">I'm a DM and disagree with this completely, and played it this way just a couple days ago.. If one is in complete darkness, which is hard to achieve in real life, one can not even see their own hand let alone someone within 5 feet of them.  I could maybe hear someone breathing if there were pure and utter silence and be able to guess maybe where they are (disadvantage, maybe).  However, that said, I use the gut check. In the heat of battle where there's multiple foes and multiple friends all making their own noises - presumably getting ready to cast spells, clanging of weapons on armor and shields, and just all around battle, unless someone uses an action to perceive where someone is. . They are unable to target the person.  I had a long range cross bow person shotting in darkness at an invisible creature.  he rolled two ones with disadvantage. I rolled his to hit, and he ended up hitting the friend of his that was past the invisible person....   Listening carefully for where an invisible or a person is in the dark, requires a dedicated action then next round they can attack and target where they think the creature may be with disadvantage.  What my party did was the wizard cast see invisibility, saw the creature, and then, said he's over there and pointed, for the rest of the group (he also had light cast on himself so people could see where he was pointing).  Then, that allowed everyone else to target the creature with disadvantage because they at least new somewhat what square to target. It took a couple rounds to setup, but, you're trying to target a moving invisible person.... It should be hard. . A single CR 4 creature vs. a party of 5 level 9 players, became a difficult encounter...  If they were in a room that was extremely quiet, no environmental noises, and the players took an action to listen for noises then used their bonus actions to perform some type of offensive act, then I would give them disadvantage - a chance at doing damage.It's a similar rule to traveling.  5th edition, if a party is traveling at a fast pace, they suffer penalties to perception.  If a party is trying to do their typical I attack, every 6 seconds (as quickly as possible) then they will suffer penalties to an invisible creature... It's an out of ordinary circumstance and requires a negative effect. In this case, the party is unable to target the creature to make an attack, due to not knowing where it is...</blockquote>

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