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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7033363" data-attributes="member: 6778044">Not at all. The thing that always bugged me is the fact that the spell would end when you attacked somebody. What does make sense is that your position is known when you do that. So I worked backwards from that, incorporating the popular method movies use to make an invisible creature. It relates to how I handle illusions as a general rule.Invisibility is an illusion hiding a creature and/or object. Like all illusions, passive Wisdom (Insight) or an active Intelligence (Investigation) check can determine the illusion, or more specifically in this case, where the illusion is. So a creature with a high enough passive Wisdom (Insight) will be largely immune to the effects of invisibility, at least once the invisible creature/object is known to be there. An invisible creature that successfully hides prevents the passive Wisdom (Insight) check until such time the invisible creature reveals itself in some way.Wisdom (Insight) is used to detect illusions because you sense that something isn't quite right. Maybe the shadows aren't present, whatever. That's all it does, indicate that you've noticed something is wrong. I use Insight because an illusion specifically fools a person's Perception. But scoping out the scale of the illusion requires more than that, which is what I use Intelligence (Investigation) for. You're putting the clues, conscious and unconscious, together.It's important to know that in my campaign, the Spell Save DC = 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Ability Bonus + Casting Level of the spell.So casting invisibility using a 5th-level spell slot is harder to detect. Note the the Spell Attack Bonus does not use the spell level. That's because hitting somebody with a spell is determined by the skill of the caster alone. To think of it a different way, throwing a small rock (1st-level spell) or a large rock (5th-level spell) doesn't change your chance to hit. But the level of the spell itself does make it more difficult to ignore the effects of the spell. This is a huge difference from the Core rules, but it is also countered with the fact that spells can be interrupted when being cast, among other things. Higher level illusions, including invisibility cast at a higher level, are harder to detect and or "disbelieve."There are three possible states, and this is relative to each creature that is attempting to locate or see the invisible creature.Invisible, location unknown. In most cases you may not even know that the creature is present. If you do, you can only target a space where you think the invisible creature is, and if you target the wrong space you have no chance of hitting it. If your passive Wisdom (Insight) is not sufficient to notice the invisible creature, then you must make use an action to make a Wisdom (Insight) check.Invisible, location known. A successful Wisdom (Insight) check identifies the location, although you still cannot see the creature. Creatures with exceptional hearing or smell have advantage on this check. You don’t suffer a miss chance, but do suffer the normal penalties for attacking a creature you cannot see. You can use an action to make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to see the creature. You can identify the location to others, but it doesn't affect their Insight or Investigation checks. Invisible, seen. You can see the invisible creature, although it is just a wavy disturbance in the air (you can’t identify who it is, for example). You don’t suffer any penalties when attacking it, and it doesn't have any benefits when attacking you. It can, however, attempt to Hide using an action at any time, and has advantage when doing so.When an invisible creature attacks, then you automatically know its location or gain advantage on your Wisdom (Insight) check if they used a ranged weapon, and you have advantage on your Intelligence (Investigation) checks to see the creature. If your passive Intelligence (Investigation) is enough to see the creature, then you can see it. If not, then you must use an action to attempt to see it. If the invisible creature attempts to hide, it uses it's Dexterity (Stealth) roll against your Wisdom (Insight) check, not Perception. Like all such checks, it's against your passive score unless you use an action to make a check.So attacking doesn’t end the spell. But it makes it easier for those around you to detect you.Because of these changes, the duration of invisibility is the defining factor. Most spells require concentration to maintain the illusion. Most magic items don’t require concentration, but have a limited duration that can be used each day.Note that the three states are pretty much the same for any illusion: Unknown/undetected, detected, and identified. Depending on the illusion, even when it is identified as an illusion, and its extent, it doesn't mean that the illusion is no longer effective. Invisibility is one of those, you can know that there is an invisible creature in the room, but still be affected by the illusion of invisibility. The point being that it uses the same mechanics as any illusion in my campaign.In relationship to this discussion, an invisible creature that moves would use their passive Dexterity (Stealth) against the passive Wisdom (Insight) to determine if their position is still known. Once the creature is "seen" then it has to Hide or otherwise break line-of-sight to be unseen again. However, any attack that the viewer makes against another target, or attack against the viewer, breaks line-of-sight in my campaign. The only way it wouldn't is if the viewer specifically informs me that they are keeping their eye on the invisible creature, in which case attacks against the viewer by others have advantage because they aren't actively defending against them.The concept of distraction in general is one we use to allow opportunities to potentially sneak up on somebody, or even gain surprise, even if there isn't an obvious place to hide. It's with disadvantage, but that can be mitigated by an ally using the Help action to distract the target.Even if you don't want to change how the invisibility spell works in terms of duration, the general concept can still be used.</blockquote>

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