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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 2823324" data-attributes="member: 4722">Hmm... save vs. destruction. Sounds like Fort to me. Problem is, with a low Fort save, it would be a lot more powerful. Course, that might not be a bad thing... just up the market bonus to, say, +3. DC 14 isn't exactly impossible to make. (Incidentally, the reason it's Will and not Fort, IMO, is because of that clause about undead being immune to Fort-save effects that don't affect objects. An object can't be disrupted, ergo - Will save.)Well you know, that was the first thing I tried when I set about trying to make a variant turning mechanic, but the monster's rolls (i.e., the numbers they needed to save) were just way too low. Would you like to see the Excel sheet I made? It also proves that a Fort save works better.Incoropreal undead are weird cases, I'll grant. For some reason, they have to have TR to keep up with the other undead (check the MM - they all have it). But really, there aren't that many incorporeal undead, compared to the total number of undead out there. As for corporeal undead, I'd say they have a huge amount of physical stamina, as I already pointed out in my first post - they're immune pain, poison, disease, massive injuries, etc. etc.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 2823324, member: 4722"] Hmm... save vs. destruction. Sounds like Fort to me. Problem is, with a low Fort save, it would be a lot more powerful. Course, that might not be a bad thing... just up the market bonus to, say, +3. DC 14 isn't exactly impossible to make. (Incidentally, the reason it's Will and not Fort, IMO, is because of that clause about undead being immune to Fort-save effects that don't affect objects. An object can't be disrupted, ergo - Will save.) Well you know, that was the first thing I tried when I set about trying to make a variant turning mechanic, but the monster's rolls (i.e., the numbers they needed to save) were just way too low. Would you like to see the Excel sheet I made? It also proves that a Fort save works better. Incoropreal undead are weird cases, I'll grant. For some reason, they have to have TR to keep up with the other undead (check the MM - they all have it). But really, there aren't that many incorporeal undead, compared to the total number of undead out there. As for corporeal undead, I'd say they have a huge amount of physical stamina, as I already pointed out in my first post - they're immune pain, poison, disease, massive injuries, etc. etc. [/QUOTE]

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