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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
why do we have halflings and gnomes?
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8191918" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Sure, as much as the DM says, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the impact of those things just because a DM can decide that they are meaningless. </p><p></p><p>And, your assumptions about commercialism are what I keep challenging on this stance. </p><p></p><p>First off, a point I haven't raised before, but if Halflings are paying taxes to a human lord, those taxes traditionally came in the form of crops. So, if human farmers are commercial farmers, then halfling farmers would be the same. Unless you are trying to say that all humans grow crops exclusively to make as much money as possible, and nothing else, when farming was. traditionally, one of the poorest occupations of the time. </p><p></p><p>Secondly, "commercial farming" arose in the 1700's alongside the industrial revolution. It seems like an incredibly odd thing to assume as standard for all humans when we are assuming a culture and world closer to the 1300's nearly 400 years earlier. </p><p></p><p>And finally, you are presenting the idea of commercial farming as being the reason that the humans would not grow, in this specific example, Saffron. But that is backwards. The spices were the most valuable crops, they would be what is grown to the exclusion of the less valuable food crops if we were assuming a commercial farming model. You keep presenting it like humans would grow the less valuable crops because all they care about is growing the crops with the most value. That is logically inconsistent. If there existed fantasy saffron that could be grown in the region, humans would grow it, just like you are saying the halflings would.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>True. </p><p></p><p>I generally consider that prestidigitation can't make a flavor that the caster hasn't tasted. I know that isn't quite RAW, but it makes sense to me that you can't make something you've never experienced. Add to that the idea that memories of flavors tend to distort, and I'd say you would have some small amount of trade even with wide-spread cantrip use to make sure that the chef can accurately recreate the flavor. </p><p></p><p>I then imagine that the idea of authenticity would take over. For those wealthy enough, the would seek out and import the "real deal" much like anyone can buy a steak, but only the wealthy tend to get 100% authentic Kobe Steaks. </p><p></p><p>It certainly would distort the trade though, and offer different incentives depending on how wide spread magic use in the kitchen was, when it came about compared to when the trade routes were established, and a few other noodly factors.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>By my reckoning, your preference leaves halflings completely dissociated with the world. The worlds of DnD are worlds of danger. Even if you aren't on the border, you could have a cult summoning demons or a necromancer trying to overthrow the town and make himself the lord of the dead. Putting halflings in a space where they are completely isolated and protected from danger, to the point where they don't have a militia ready to defend their homes, seems incredible to me. </p><p></p><p>So yes, I think every village and town needs a trained militia. A few people with real weapons and real armor to defend them in the worst case scenarios. That accurately reflects how people react to dangerous situations, they think of ways to protect themselves. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, your comparison is fundamentally flawed. I'm not talking about Natural Illusionist at all. I'm talking about the PHB write up that says gnomes are masters of illusion magic. Other people came in and began deriding that because all gnomes get as a racial ability is minor illusion, but that is like saying that Dwarves are poor blacksmiths because all they get as a racial ability is proficiency, and every blacksmith gets proficiency from the background. It ignores the associated lore. </p><p></p><p>And that is why I pressed for specifics on how halflings would hide. Not because I care about how much handwaving you are doing, but because there is nothing in the lore that provides practical skill use for halflings to hide. They are farmers and river boaters, per the PHB, which are not skill sets that lend themselves well to camoflauging an entire village. Something I think you recognized, because you immediately jumped to these villages being hid by mid-level rogues. But, even a level 12 rogue can't build a false bottom to a treasure chest if they aren't a carpenter. And if they don't have more than proficiency, then they aren't better than any other carpenter would be at the same task. So, either building a false bottom is something any carpenter can do, or you need some other explanation for why your rogue can do something extraordinary beyond their shared skills.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8191918, member: 6801228"] Sure, as much as the DM says, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the impact of those things just because a DM can decide that they are meaningless. And, your assumptions about commercialism are what I keep challenging on this stance. First off, a point I haven't raised before, but if Halflings are paying taxes to a human lord, those taxes traditionally came in the form of crops. So, if human farmers are commercial farmers, then halfling farmers would be the same. Unless you are trying to say that all humans grow crops exclusively to make as much money as possible, and nothing else, when farming was. traditionally, one of the poorest occupations of the time. Secondly, "commercial farming" arose in the 1700's alongside the industrial revolution. It seems like an incredibly odd thing to assume as standard for all humans when we are assuming a culture and world closer to the 1300's nearly 400 years earlier. And finally, you are presenting the idea of commercial farming as being the reason that the humans would not grow, in this specific example, Saffron. But that is backwards. The spices were the most valuable crops, they would be what is grown to the exclusion of the less valuable food crops if we were assuming a commercial farming model. You keep presenting it like humans would grow the less valuable crops because all they care about is growing the crops with the most value. That is logically inconsistent. If there existed fantasy saffron that could be grown in the region, humans would grow it, just like you are saying the halflings would. True. I generally consider that prestidigitation can't make a flavor that the caster hasn't tasted. I know that isn't quite RAW, but it makes sense to me that you can't make something you've never experienced. Add to that the idea that memories of flavors tend to distort, and I'd say you would have some small amount of trade even with wide-spread cantrip use to make sure that the chef can accurately recreate the flavor. I then imagine that the idea of authenticity would take over. For those wealthy enough, the would seek out and import the "real deal" much like anyone can buy a steak, but only the wealthy tend to get 100% authentic Kobe Steaks. It certainly would distort the trade though, and offer different incentives depending on how wide spread magic use in the kitchen was, when it came about compared to when the trade routes were established, and a few other noodly factors. By my reckoning, your preference leaves halflings completely dissociated with the world. The worlds of DnD are worlds of danger. Even if you aren't on the border, you could have a cult summoning demons or a necromancer trying to overthrow the town and make himself the lord of the dead. Putting halflings in a space where they are completely isolated and protected from danger, to the point where they don't have a militia ready to defend their homes, seems incredible to me. So yes, I think every village and town needs a trained militia. A few people with real weapons and real armor to defend them in the worst case scenarios. That accurately reflects how people react to dangerous situations, they think of ways to protect themselves. See, your comparison is fundamentally flawed. I'm not talking about Natural Illusionist at all. I'm talking about the PHB write up that says gnomes are masters of illusion magic. Other people came in and began deriding that because all gnomes get as a racial ability is minor illusion, but that is like saying that Dwarves are poor blacksmiths because all they get as a racial ability is proficiency, and every blacksmith gets proficiency from the background. It ignores the associated lore. And that is why I pressed for specifics on how halflings would hide. Not because I care about how much handwaving you are doing, but because there is nothing in the lore that provides practical skill use for halflings to hide. They are farmers and river boaters, per the PHB, which are not skill sets that lend themselves well to camoflauging an entire village. Something I think you recognized, because you immediately jumped to these villages being hid by mid-level rogues. But, even a level 12 rogue can't build a false bottom to a treasure chest if they aren't a carpenter. And if they don't have more than proficiency, then they aren't better than any other carpenter would be at the same task. So, either building a false bottom is something any carpenter can do, or you need some other explanation for why your rogue can do something extraordinary beyond their shared skills. [/QUOTE]
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