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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4632571" data-attributes="member: 22779">Ok, I know, the simple answer is, &quot;Cos we like different things, stupid&quot;.&nbsp; Fair enough.&nbsp; But, I think there may be more to it than that.&nbsp; When we start talking about our 3e experiences, it becomes very readily apparent that despite the rather high level of rules standardization that came with d20, we can have very radically different opinions of what goes on at a &quot;regular&quot; game.Some time ago, I did a similar thing with the CR/EL system.&nbsp; I noticed that there were a number of posters who had very different experiences with the system than I did.&nbsp; I like the CR/EL system.&nbsp; Stop laughing.&nbsp; Really I do.&nbsp; I find that it works most of the time for me.&nbsp; It's certainly not perfect, but, it does work.&nbsp; But, for a number of other people, I saw claims that they regularly ran combats five or six EL's above the party level, that CR's were basically meaningless and they eyeballed everything.&nbsp; So, I did a bit of digging, asked around the collective wisdom of En World and came up with a list of <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/200150-factors-affecting-cr-el.html" target="_blank">Factors that affect CR and EL</a>&nbsp; It provided a nice little troubleshooting list to help me help others who were having trouble with EL/CR.So, I'm wondering if we could do the same sort of thing for a wider question.&nbsp; What factors generally have the biggest effect on people's 3e experiences?&nbsp; I'll start off with a few and see where this goes.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1.&nbsp; Major changes in the wealth/level system.&nbsp; This, I think more than anything else, has a huge impact on how people view 3e.&nbsp; If you played roughly by the book - wealth by level that's fairly close to the baseline, magic items are reasonably easily purchased that sort of thing, you are going to have a very, very different experience with 3e than if you played fast and loose with wealth by level or (IMO more commonly) made the trade in magic items much more difficult, if not outright impossible.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2.&nbsp; Using modules.&nbsp; This goes all the way back to any edition.&nbsp; One thing I've noticed when people talk about 1e, is that people like me who played a lot of modules have an entirely different view of 1e than people who didn't.&nbsp; I think that in 3e this applies as well.&nbsp; When people talk about how their combats regularly feature large numbers of opponents, for example, it's pretty clear that they're not playing modules.&nbsp; Which leads into my third point-&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3.&nbsp; Using classed humanoids as opponents.&nbsp; If you used classed humanoids primarily as opponents instead of monsters in your game, you will have entirely different experiences than someone who used mostly monsters.&nbsp; Things like disarm, for example, become an actually viable tactic.&nbsp; You cannot disarm a behir.&nbsp; OTOH, the big assed monster grapplers don't become such an issue if you don't use them.&nbsp; And at high levels, it seems like every bloody big monster has improved grab.&nbsp; That's my starter list.&nbsp; Whatcha think?&nbsp; Am I way off base?&nbsp; Oh, and before I forget, let me add a disclaimer here:*****Disclaimer:&nbsp; I am in no way, shape, or form making any claims as to the superiority of one playstyle or another.&nbsp; I make no value judgements whatsoever.&nbsp; Any value judgements you glean from what I've written above exist entirely in your own mind and are certainly not intentional.&nbsp; I PLAY 3e.&nbsp; I LIKE 3e.&nbsp; I am NOT BASHING 3e.&nbsp; Any insult, condescension, snark or whatever else you are feeling put out by are completely and utterly unintended.******************</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4632571, member: 22779"] Ok, I know, the simple answer is, "Cos we like different things, stupid". Fair enough. But, I think there may be more to it than that. When we start talking about our 3e experiences, it becomes very readily apparent that despite the rather high level of rules standardization that came with d20, we can have very radically different opinions of what goes on at a "regular" game. Some time ago, I did a similar thing with the CR/EL system. I noticed that there were a number of posters who had very different experiences with the system than I did. I like the CR/EL system. Stop laughing. Really I do. I find that it works most of the time for me. It's certainly not perfect, but, it does work. But, for a number of other people, I saw claims that they regularly ran combats five or six EL's above the party level, that CR's were basically meaningless and they eyeballed everything. So, I did a bit of digging, asked around the collective wisdom of En World and came up with a list of [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/200150-factors-affecting-cr-el.html]Factors that affect CR and EL[/url] It provided a nice little troubleshooting list to help me help others who were having trouble with EL/CR. So, I'm wondering if we could do the same sort of thing for a wider question. What factors generally have the biggest effect on people's 3e experiences? I'll start off with a few and see where this goes. 1. Major changes in the wealth/level system. This, I think more than anything else, has a huge impact on how people view 3e. If you played roughly by the book - wealth by level that's fairly close to the baseline, magic items are reasonably easily purchased that sort of thing, you are going to have a very, very different experience with 3e than if you played fast and loose with wealth by level or (IMO more commonly) made the trade in magic items much more difficult, if not outright impossible. 2. Using modules. This goes all the way back to any edition. One thing I've noticed when people talk about 1e, is that people like me who played a lot of modules have an entirely different view of 1e than people who didn't. I think that in 3e this applies as well. When people talk about how their combats regularly feature large numbers of opponents, for example, it's pretty clear that they're not playing modules. Which leads into my third point- 3. Using classed humanoids as opponents. If you used classed humanoids primarily as opponents instead of monsters in your game, you will have entirely different experiences than someone who used mostly monsters. Things like disarm, for example, become an actually viable tactic. You cannot disarm a behir. OTOH, the big assed monster grapplers don't become such an issue if you don't use them. And at high levels, it seems like every bloody big monster has improved grab. That's my starter list. Whatcha think? Am I way off base? Oh, and before I forget, let me add a disclaimer here: *****Disclaimer: I am in no way, shape, or form making any claims as to the superiority of one playstyle or another. I make no value judgements whatsoever. Any value judgements you glean from what I've written above exist entirely in your own mind and are certainly not intentional. I PLAY 3e. I LIKE 3e. I am NOT BASHING 3e. Any insult, condescension, snark or whatever else you are feeling put out by are completely and utterly unintended.****************** [/QUOTE]

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