Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 4635354" data-attributes="member: 463">By CR-appropriate, I meant CR = to party level, the so-called 'moderately challenging encounter'.In 1e, hit dice were equated with level, but an 8th level 1e Fighter PC could usually trash hordes of 8 hd hill giants.  A 7th level 3e Fighter PC can't take on even 1 3e CR 7 hill giant.I think the solution is to recognise that the '25% of party resources' paradigm doesn't work very well; and treat CR as pretty much the absolute maximum you should ever throw against typical PCs.  With monsters, 2-4 foes each 2-4 CR under Party Level is probably the sweet spot for a fun 3e encounter.  With NPCs, they are usually much weaker than monsters of CR equal to their level, usually their effective CR is about 2 below their level, so a single NPC has to be at least 2 levels over party level to give a moderate challenge.Edit:  I agree with your point about adventure design, but I think it's inherent in the 3e CR system and in the way 3e monsters are statted out.  Plus, 3e combat is so lengthy, players will even complain about easy fights as being a waste of time!Edit 2: The Designing Better Encounters section at your link <a href="http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/encounter-design.html" target="_blank">http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/encounter-design.html</a> says it right:(1) Design most encounters around an EL 2 to 4 lower than the party's level.(2) Don't be afraid of large mobs (10+ creatures) with a total EL equal to the PCs' level. The common design wisdom is that these creatures are "too easy" for the PCs. This is true if you're thinking in terms of the "common wisdom" that sprang up around misreading the DMG, but in practice these types of encounters work just fine if you're looking for fast encounters and lots of them.(3) Encounters with an EL equal to the PCs' level should be used sparingly. They should be thought of as "major encounters" -- the memorable set pieces of the adventure. It actually won't take very long before the expectations of your players' have been re-aligned and these encounters leave them thinking, "Wow! That was a tough encounter!"(4) And that means you get even more bang for your buck when you roll out the very rare EL+2 or EL+4 encounter.Of course few published 3e adventures work this way.  Many boast about their EL +2 to +4 encounters (Necromancer, I'm looking at you).  I guess the best use of published modules is to run them for a PC group at least 2-3 levels higher than listed.</blockquote>

Verification