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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 4638291" data-attributes="member: 463">For my prior, more 'middle of the road' groups, some monsters are over-CR'd, notably NPCs except possibly full progression casters, and in 3.0 the demons were horribly over-CR'd.  Trolls by contrast still seem under-CR'd since they will often kill a PC in the first full melee round (surprise round:  Troll jumps out and moves to melee range, round 1: Troll full attacks, rends & kills PC).To a lesser extent the same problem applies to all melee brute monsters at least up to CR 6.  For 7th+ level parties they often have the magical resources to scout out and discover the monsters and pre-buff before combat.</blockquote>