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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Why do we have this class? Answer Flavor(source) , Role (and Role Flex), Range and Approach.
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7865713" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Well, except for two minor details:</p><p></p><p>1) The <em>Avenging</em> Paladin build was already the baddass leg-breaker of the gods, conceptually, just not a fully fledged striker.</p><p>2) "Legbreakers of the gods" is a cute way of saying "Divine Striker." It is not an <em>a priori</em> concept, and is as virtually absent from myth/legend/genre a the D&D-style Cleric, itself.</p><p></p><p>No small number of other classes were more clearly cases of "grid-filling" than a putative Martial Controller would have been. The Invoker, for instance. In prior eds, the Cleric had been as much a controller (more debuffing leaning) as the Wizard. IN 4e it couldn't be both, so the Invoker was split off.</p><p></p><p>There were also a few cases of reverse-grid-filling, where a spot in the grid was poached by a pre-existing concept that just barely fit. The PH2 primal-spirit Barbarian and the PH3 Psionic Monk are the clear examples.</p><p></p><p>Then there was the Druid, another traditional class that traditionally covered two or three roles all by itself, and got split up - once Essentials gave up on the one role to a class assumption, the Druid got a Leader sub-class, then a summoner sub-class. (In 5e, all that's back in one class again.)</p><p></p><p>The difference between the treatment of the Cleric and the Fighter was that the controller functionality of the Cleric got split off into a separate class in the same source, the Invoker, while the battlefield control functionality of the Fighter in 3e instead got pushed to fairly obscure/marginal paragon paths & feats, and that of the Warlord was just left under-developed.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, the Monk could have as easily been re-imagined (perhaps in a less orientalist way, as simply a 'Martial Artist,' to include fencing masters and the like from a broader range of cultural and genre inspiration) and re-jiggered to be a martial controller as pounded into the Psionic Striker hole.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7865713, member: 996"] Well, except for two minor details: 1) The [I]Avenging[/I] Paladin build was already the baddass leg-breaker of the gods, conceptually, just not a fully fledged striker. 2) "Legbreakers of the gods" is a cute way of saying "Divine Striker." It is not an [I]a priori[/I] concept, and is as virtually absent from myth/legend/genre a the D&D-style Cleric, itself. No small number of other classes were more clearly cases of "grid-filling" than a putative Martial Controller would have been. The Invoker, for instance. In prior eds, the Cleric had been as much a controller (more debuffing leaning) as the Wizard. IN 4e it couldn't be both, so the Invoker was split off. There were also a few cases of reverse-grid-filling, where a spot in the grid was poached by a pre-existing concept that just barely fit. The PH2 primal-spirit Barbarian and the PH3 Psionic Monk are the clear examples. Then there was the Druid, another traditional class that traditionally covered two or three roles all by itself, and got split up - once Essentials gave up on the one role to a class assumption, the Druid got a Leader sub-class, then a summoner sub-class. (In 5e, all that's back in one class again.) The difference between the treatment of the Cleric and the Fighter was that the controller functionality of the Cleric got split off into a separate class in the same source, the Invoker, while the battlefield control functionality of the Fighter in 3e instead got pushed to fairly obscure/marginal paragon paths & feats, and that of the Warlord was just left under-developed. Yeah, the Monk could have as easily been re-imagined (perhaps in a less orientalist way, as simply a 'Martial Artist,' to include fencing masters and the like from a broader range of cultural and genre inspiration) and re-jiggered to be a martial controller as pounded into the Psionic Striker hole. [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Why do we have this class? Answer Flavor(source) , Role (and Role Flex), Range and Approach.
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