Why do we need Fumbles?

[Janx]

So I saw a thread title in the House Rules on Fumble rules, and it got me thinking. Why do gamers feel the need for "Critical Fumbles" and such in the game?

What value to the story does it add?
What realism does it add?
Does it emulate events in any existing fiction, movies, etc that are worth repeating?

It's pretty clear that there are some critical hit examples in fiction and movies. Bard's arrow into Smaug's weak scale, slaying the huge beast is an example, perhaps. Conan probably scores lots of critical hits in his fiction.

But I can only think of one example in fiction, that could be described as a critical fumble. I believe it was "Where the Red Fern Grows" or "Old Yeller" (both were about coon hunting dogs and I was 12 years old...), where the mean guy in the story is chasing our protagonist with a hatchet, and trips, and falls on the blade. His stomach is cut open and he shortly dies.

That's it, and it's not even on a combat roll, so a mechanic of rolling a natural 1 wouldn't work to simulate it (unless it was on his running check).

Critical Fumbles often get retold in funny stories about D&D, rather than the epic heroic ones. I'd rather have an epic tale to bore my friends with, than telling the one about the time I rolled a 1 and lopped off my arm with a Great Sword (which I had two hands on).

I'm not a fan of critical fumbles. Nor of the way they tend to be implemented in house rules.
I've never really played in a game that had them, so I'm puzzled by the desire to have them by some players.

But rather then get into mechanics, I'm curious as to what examples in storytelling would make critical fumbles a valuable rule mechanic?

Janx

 

[Lasher Dragon]

I'm not a fan of critical fumbles. Nor of the way they tend to be implemented in house rules.
I've never really played in a game that had them, so I'm puzzled by the desire to have them by some players.

But rather then get into mechanics, I'm curious as to what examples in storytelling would make critical fumbles a valuable rule mechanic?

Janx

How can you say you do not like them having never played with them?

We have a fumble chart we came up with that also makes it harder to fumble the higher your attack bonus is, so it works great. I think fumble charts are there mainly to add humor, but there are times when it can be hectic. I've had a Fighter/Barb drop all 4 of his weapons, one right after the other. Definitely makes Quick Draw more important.

 

[Captain Tagon]

Gollum falling into the lava was a pretty critical fumble really.

 

[MarkAHart]

I've used fumbles, and been in games where a fumble system exists, from time to time. Years and years ago, our group found the fumble charts in Rolemaster extremely humorous. In actual game play, they can be pretty lethal.

Overall, I don't particularly care for fumble systems, especially with the notion of lopping your head off or impaling yourself on your own sword. If these things don't happen to your character, they can add humor to a game or combat. If you run into a string of bad luck, fumbles become frustrating and detract from the game. Dropping a weapon, stumbling, or the like is one thing...skewering an ally through the lower intestine and the like goes too far.

One reasoning I've heard from time to time is that if you have critical success, you have to have critical failure. Not sure this is really a valid argument.

In the long run, characters will suffer the brunt of any fumble system, and benefit from it only rarely. Fumbles usually don't add anything to the story aspects of a game, and indeed can detract from same.

 

[the Jester]

How about when Spidey's webshooters run out at a crucial moment?

 

[S'mon]

I don't use them except for the silly 3e weapons like 10' spiked chains and dire flails that are clearly more dangerous to their wielder than the enemy... otherwise "1 misses" does fine. Only crit fumbles I recall in swords & sorcery were spellcasters out of their depth - Grey Mouser accidentally annihilating his own side's magists in Lords of Quarmall, and Cugel the Clever screwing up real bad at the end of "The Eyes of the Overworld". In combat, generally, I think they're a bad idea, but for Rogues mis-casting scrolls, sure.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

The fumble chart we use, IIRC you would have to roll 3 1's in a row, AND have a very low attack bonus to crit yourself/someone near you.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

I used to make my own critical failure tables and my own critical hit location tables. but it bogs down the game. One thing i do now is when there is a Critical Failure the players turn is over no matter how many attacks the character had left.

 

[Crothian]

I treat fumbles like criticals, you have to first roll a nat one and then confirm the fumble. I figure if there is a chance for an extra good hit then there should be a chance for an extra bad miss.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

That's how we do it Crothian... as a result, several natural 1's in a row could very well spell the death of your character LOL

Has never yet happened, but when it does we'll probably have the attitude "Man, it was just his time to go... the Gods of Randomness took a hit out on him"

hehehe