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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7901797" data-attributes="member: 16814">If the rules create a self-evident system, and you can level up in a spell-casting class without prior training by those same rules, then this is part of the self-evident system -- killing monsters as a fighter can learn you magics.What you do is called special pleading.&nbsp; It's where you except those things that cut against your argument and keep only the parts that you like.&nbsp; If you're going to argue that XP and levels are a coherent, non-meta system that is part of the fictional world, then you have to explain all the things those rules are capable of in that same system.&nbsp; Declaring some outcomes of the rules to be too silly to contemplate while saying others are obviously non-meta parts of the world is a deeply flawed argument.&nbsp; I get that you have your playstyle, and that's cool and all, go for it, advocate for it, even!&nbsp; But you really need to stop trying to argue that your preferences are actually foundational tenets of roleplaying.&nbsp; They're just, like, your opinion, man.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7901797, member: 16814"] If the rules create a self-evident system, and you can level up in a spell-casting class without prior training by those same rules, then this is part of the self-evident system -- killing monsters as a fighter can learn you magics. What you do is called special pleading. It's where you except those things that cut against your argument and keep only the parts that you like. If you're going to argue that XP and levels are a coherent, non-meta system that is part of the fictional world, then you have to explain all the things those rules are capable of in that same system. Declaring some outcomes of the rules to be too silly to contemplate while saying others are obviously non-meta parts of the world is a deeply flawed argument. I get that you have your playstyle, and that's cool and all, go for it, advocate for it, even! But you really need to stop trying to argue that your preferences are actually foundational tenets of roleplaying. They're just, like, your opinion, man. [/QUOTE]

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