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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8477956" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Sure, I mention the two as types of consequences, but didn’t really mean to set them in opposition. My point was more that consequences of a narrative sort can be present in just about any RPG. So D&amp;D can indeed have these.But once you move beyond that, there’s very little other than PC death. Some editions have incorporated alignment change, and that could certainly be meaningful for certain classes. Level drain or loss, but that’s temporary, akin to HP loss but more severe. A sword of sharpness might result in a lost PC limb or two is used by an enemy NPC. Then certainly there were the kind of arbitrary consequences of things like the Deck of Many Things and similar items. “You’re now a dwarf” and all that.D&amp;D relies almost entirely on HP loss for any/all danger, and no matter how many HP you may lose, there’s nothing that happens as a result. As long as you have 1 HP you’ll function the same as if you had 100, and the missing 99 will always come back given a bit of time and or healing magic.I think this is largely why you see folks claim that of you remove this consequence from the game then you’re taking away all of the challenge. It’s because in D&amp;D and similar games, that’s largely true….you’d be taking away the consequence of losing your HP, and almost everything revolves around that.But that’s simply not the case for games that don't rely on HP/character death as the sole (or even primary) consequence for PCs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 8477956, member: 6785785"] Sure, I mention the two as types of consequences, but didn’t really mean to set them in opposition. My point was more that consequences of a narrative sort can be present in just about any RPG. So D&D can indeed have these. But once you move beyond that, there’s very little other than PC death. Some editions have incorporated alignment change, and that could certainly be meaningful for certain classes. Level drain or loss, but that’s temporary, akin to HP loss but more severe. A sword of sharpness might result in a lost PC limb or two is used by an enemy NPC. Then certainly there were the kind of arbitrary consequences of things like the Deck of Many Things and similar items. “You’re now a dwarf” and all that. D&D relies almost entirely on HP loss for any/all danger, and no matter how many HP you may lose, there’s nothing that happens as a result. As long as you have 1 HP you’ll function the same as if you had 100, and the missing 99 will always come back given a bit of time and or healing magic. I think this is largely why you see folks claim that of you remove this consequence from the game then you’re taking away all of the challenge. It’s because in D&D and similar games, that’s largely true….you’d be taking away the consequence of losing your HP, and almost everything revolves around that. But that’s simply not the case for games that don't rely on HP/character death as the sole (or even primary) consequence for PCs. [/QUOTE]

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