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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Big J Money" data-source="post: 6808849" data-attributes="member: 70533">Update (with my conclusion so far):  It's no surprise that I found metagaming to be a myth.  There are at least two very different definitions of the term, presented below the OP.  When I wrote the OP, I was going by the second definition, and had no knowledge of the first.  Well, I had the knowledge I think, but never connected the dots to the wider term.  I have yet to decide which definition I'm going to take going forward since it seems the TRPG community hasn't even agreed.  One thing is clear, when people speak about metagaming, they should be very clear on what they mean, because their audience may have something different in mind.  So I do stand by the intent of the OP, which was that it's often the case that when people are using the term, it effectively has no useful meaning in their conversation.  My personal conclusion is to always ask what people mean by it, if they mention it.I think meta-gaming is a myth.  Cheating is a real problem.  Implausible character narration is a real problem.  But I think meta-gaming means nothing, and can't be proven anyway since we can't read each others' minds.However, rather than try to explain why to people who are already convinced that I'm wrong before I start, I want to ask all of you: what is it, specifically, that you hate about meta-gaming?  Convince me.  Bonus points if you can avoid conflating meta-gaming with cheating or implausible narration, which I already realize are genuinely undesirable things for most (if not all) role-players.Edit:  If you want to give an opinion on why you hate it, then it would be extra helpful if to do it like:1. "I think metagaming is..." (definition)2. "I don't like it because..." (personal opinion)Here are some definitions that have emerged from the thread so far (leave comments if you disagree with them!)[sblock]Definition 1: Meta-gaming is broader than pen and paper RPGs. It involves the manipulation of rules to gain an advantage that isn't apparent from the rules or the stated goals of the game themselves. Such advantage is often deemed either “cheating” or “against the spirit of play” by other players in the group.Definition 2:Meta-gaming, in role-playing games, is making decisions for one's character based on information not available to the characterThere seem to be two main stances from those who hold the second definition. 1) Meta-gaming is bad; it goes against the purposes of role-playing, and/or immersion.  2) Meta-gaming is neutral and can be used for good or bad purposes.  Even some of those who take the first stance admit that some amount of meta-gaming is a necessary evil in order to make the game work.Some of those who hold the first definition admit that it is also possible to use "metagame knowledge" (or out of character knowledge) in a way that affects play, yet does not follow the definition of metagaming.  This activity doesn't seem to have an agreed upon name, based on the information in this thread.[/sblock]</blockquote>

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