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Why do you hate meta-gaming? (And what does it mean to you?)
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<blockquote data-quote="Big J Money" data-source="post: 6809460" data-attributes="member: 70533"><p>Summarizing info gathered so far, two or more (quite different) definitions of meta-gaming have so far emerged. So there is already not one clear meaning to "meta-gaming" when people use it without some explanation.</p><p></p><p><u>This one has been the most popular so far</u></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meta-gaming is a subset of cheating</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meta-gaming requires the manipulation of rules; not just the fiction<br /> (Potentially related, but let me know if you think this should be unrelated):</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meta-gaming is broader than RPGs, and relates to using rules in unanticipated ways to gain advantages that "feel against the spirit of play" to other players</li> </ul><p></p><p>To summarize this definition: “<strong>Meta-gaming is a manipulation of game rules that is broader than pen and paper RPGs. It involves the manipulation of rules in unanticipated ways that are deemed either “cheating” or “against the spirit of play” by other players in the group.</strong>”</p><p></p><p>Implications:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meta-gaming is an act that can't be identified or judged globally, but must be done so by each individual gaming group in each instance. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meta-gaming is a subjective act, not an objective one (i.e. what would “feel against the spirit of play” to one group might not to another.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meta-gaming is inherently “bad”, because it’s subjectively so by definition. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This definition doesn’t mention implausibility of fiction</li> </ul><p></p><p>This is intriguing because I hear people use the term objectively. Instead of “that would be considered meta-gaming to my group” I much more often hear “that’s meta-gaming”. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anyone use the term subjectively, actually. So I’m skeptical of this definition. It also neglects to mention fictional implausibility, which often comes up in discussions on meta-gaming.</p><p></p><p></p><p><u>Here is another emerging definition</u> (granted by 1 person, so far):</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meta-gaming is making decisions based on information not available to the character, [example: the fact that the world isn't real and you're actually playing a game.]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Role-playing is making decisions as your character would.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sometimes, meta-gaming is the lesser of two evils, and should be permitted in small doses where necessary</li> </ul><p></p><p>Implications</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Role-playing and meta-gaming are incompatible activities, by definition</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meta-gaming is therefore bad/evil, since the players’ goal is to role-play</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This definition accounts for meta-gaming’s relationship to implausible narration of character action</li> </ul><p></p><p>I want to point out that some of these are unclear statements and should be refined (which is why I didn’t summarize a definition yet). A couple open questions I have:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><span style="color: #B22222">Which OOC information, if any, is allowed for one to still be considered role-playing?</span></em> The example mentions out of fiction knowledge (that we’re people sitting at a table), but what about fictional knowledge the character couldn’t know? I’ve used that before and will argue that I was still fully engaged in playing the role of my character</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><span style="color: #B22222">What does “making decisions as your character would” mean?</span></em> In all my years of role-playing this is one of the more vague definitions I’ve read. I’m concerned that this is a subjectively loaded term but would like to see clarification to avoid misunderstanding. Some people have already disagreed with this definition, so this may also be factious and require more evidence.</li> </ul><p></p><p>This is intriguing because I also don't often see people explain their definition of meta-gaming, or even recognize that the term is subjective. </p><p></p><p>Finally, some people mentioned that they don’t like meta-gaming because it breaks their immersion. <em><span style="color: #B22222">Would anyone care to elaborate on that, or are any of the above definitions adequate explanations for why?</span></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Big J Money, post: 6809460, member: 70533"] Summarizing info gathered so far, two or more (quite different) definitions of meta-gaming have so far emerged. So there is already not one clear meaning to "meta-gaming" when people use it without some explanation. [U]This one has been the most popular so far[/U] [LIST] [*]Meta-gaming is a subset of cheating [*]Meta-gaming requires the manipulation of rules; not just the fiction (Potentially related, but let me know if you think this should be unrelated): [*]Meta-gaming is broader than RPGs, and relates to using rules in unanticipated ways to gain advantages that "feel against the spirit of play" to other players [/LIST] To summarize this definition: “[B]Meta-gaming is a manipulation of game rules that is broader than pen and paper RPGs. It involves the manipulation of rules in unanticipated ways that are deemed either “cheating” or “against the spirit of play” by other players in the group.[/B]” Implications: [LIST] [*]Meta-gaming is an act that can't be identified or judged globally, but must be done so by each individual gaming group in each instance. [*]Meta-gaming is a subjective act, not an objective one (i.e. what would “feel against the spirit of play” to one group might not to another.) [*]Meta-gaming is inherently “bad”, because it’s subjectively so by definition. [*]This definition doesn’t mention implausibility of fiction [/LIST] This is intriguing because I hear people use the term objectively. Instead of “that would be considered meta-gaming to my group” I much more often hear “that’s meta-gaming”. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anyone use the term subjectively, actually. So I’m skeptical of this definition. It also neglects to mention fictional implausibility, which often comes up in discussions on meta-gaming. [U]Here is another emerging definition[/U] (granted by 1 person, so far): [LIST] [*]Meta-gaming is making decisions based on information not available to the character, [example: the fact that the world isn't real and you're actually playing a game.] [*]Role-playing is making decisions as your character would. [*]Sometimes, meta-gaming is the lesser of two evils, and should be permitted in small doses where necessary [/LIST] Implications [LIST] [*]Role-playing and meta-gaming are incompatible activities, by definition [*]Meta-gaming is therefore bad/evil, since the players’ goal is to role-play [*]This definition accounts for meta-gaming’s relationship to implausible narration of character action [/LIST] I want to point out that some of these are unclear statements and should be refined (which is why I didn’t summarize a definition yet). A couple open questions I have: [LIST] [*][I][COLOR="#B22222"]Which OOC information, if any, is allowed for one to still be considered role-playing?[/COLOR][/I] The example mentions out of fiction knowledge (that we’re people sitting at a table), but what about fictional knowledge the character couldn’t know? I’ve used that before and will argue that I was still fully engaged in playing the role of my character [*][I][COLOR="#B22222"]What does “making decisions as your character would” mean?[/COLOR][/I] In all my years of role-playing this is one of the more vague definitions I’ve read. I’m concerned that this is a subjectively loaded term but would like to see clarification to avoid misunderstanding. Some people have already disagreed with this definition, so this may also be factious and require more evidence. [/LIST] This is intriguing because I also don't often see people explain their definition of meta-gaming, or even recognize that the term is subjective. Finally, some people mentioned that they don’t like meta-gaming because it breaks their immersion. [I][COLOR="#B22222"]Would anyone care to elaborate on that, or are any of the above definitions adequate explanations for why?[/COLOR][/I] [/QUOTE]
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