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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7632573" data-attributes="member: 996">Not really /counter/.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Never even heard of Living Steel. But, Champions! and GURPS, both.&nbsp; So I've experienced notoriously complex systems.And, honestly, familiarity papers over complexity very effectively.&nbsp; You /try/ a game like Hero after a decade of D&amp;D, it seems so much more complex.&nbsp; Then, after mastering it you realize, no, that's not the case, at all. I've certainly heard the canvas analogy before.&nbsp; Back in the day, one &quot;D&amp;D&quot; game could have startlingly little in common with the next.&nbsp; &nbsp;Very true, and entirely in support of what I've been saying, actually.&nbsp; That completely throws off my rhythm, I hope you realize.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown&nbsp; &nbsp; :("&nbsp; data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />I don't just /look/ at AD&amp;D, I played it for decades, and I /didn't/ follow /all/ the rules, and never met anyone who did.&nbsp; So I understand how those rules were never followed.&nbsp; It's also funny how some of us picked completely different rules out of the general chaos that was TSR D&amp;D to follow (or even remember). Celebrim just mentioned the bizarre rules for Pummeling/Grappling/Overbearing (3.x Grapple rules get a /lot/ of flack, and deservedly so, but they were still a huge improvement, both in being more functional, and, incredibly, in being simpler, than that obscure section of the DMG). I used weapon v armor adjustment. That is such a nice way of saying, well exactly what I've been saying......but, really, in talking about &quot;Why D&amp;D?&quot; we're being terribly non-responsive to the OP.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7632573, member: 996"] Not really /counter/. ;) Never even heard of Living Steel. But, Champions! and GURPS, both. So I've experienced notoriously complex systems. And, honestly, familiarity papers over complexity very effectively. You /try/ a game like Hero after a decade of D&D, it seems so much more complex. Then, after mastering it you realize, no, that's not the case, at all. I've certainly heard the canvas analogy before. Back in the day, one "D&D" game could have startlingly little in common with the next. Very true, and entirely in support of what I've been saying, actually. That completely throws off my rhythm, I hope you realize. :( I don't just /look/ at AD&D, I played it for decades, and I /didn't/ follow /all/ the rules, and never met anyone who did. So I understand how those rules were never followed. It's also funny how some of us picked completely different rules out of the general chaos that was TSR D&D to follow (or even remember). Celebrim just mentioned the bizarre rules for Pummeling/Grappling/Overbearing (3.x Grapple rules get a /lot/ of flack, and deservedly so, but they were still a huge improvement, both in being more functional, and, incredibly, in being simpler, than that obscure section of the DMG). I used weapon v armor adjustment. That is such a nice way of saying, well exactly what I've been saying... ...but, really, in talking about "Why D&D?" we're being terribly non-responsive to the OP. [/QUOTE]

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