Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why do you use Floating ASI's (other than power gaming)? [+]
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8460326" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>[USER=6807152]@Scribe[/USER], With the tip to check legends and lore, I did some digging, and while I have yet to find the quote in question, I did find something very interesting. In the original article introducing the concept of bounded accuracy (and coining the term for it) explained it thusly.</p><p></p><p>[excerpt]The basic premise behind the bounded accuracy system is simple: we make no assumptions on the DM's side of the game that the player's attack and spell accuracy, or their defenses, increase as a result of gaining levels.[/excerpt]</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, the article goes on to say very much the opposite of what I’m asserting (that primary ability bonus is expected to start at +3, increase to +4 at 4th level, and increase again to +5 at 8th level).</p><p></p><p>[excerpt]We also make the same assumptions about character ability modifiers and skill bonuses. Thus, our expected DCs do not scale automatically with level, and instead a DC is left to represent the fixed value of the difficulty of some task, not the difficulty of the task relative to level.[/excerpt]</p><p></p><p>However, this should be taken in context with the point on 5e’s development when the article was written. At the time, 5e’s proficiency bonus mechanic hadn’t been developed yet. Training in a skill or tool gave a flat +3 bonus that never increased, and different classes’ attack bonuses increased at different rates, as the article also alludes to:</p><p></p><p>[excerpt]Now, note that I said that we make no assumptions on the DM's side of the game about increased accuracy and defenses. This does not mean that the players do not gain bonuses to accuracy and defenses. It does mean, however, that we do not need to make sure that characters advance on a set schedule, and we can let each class advance at its own appropriate pace.[/excerpt]</p><p></p><p>If bounded accuracy means they assume no increase in accuracy as level increases, and everyone’s to-hit bonus increases at exactly the same rate, that must necessarily mean that target numbers increase commensurately with them, or else accuracy would increase. And we see exactly that if we look under the hood. As long as players’ primary ability modifier increases at 4th and 8th level, they maintain that same degree of accuracy against level-appropriate monsters (which depending on your starting score in your primary ability ranges between 45% and 65%).</p><p></p><p>This seems to contradict the initial intent of bounded accuracy, but my hypothesis is that this was done in order to make possible another change that was introduced in the same packet as the proficiency bonus progression became unified: the equation of feats with ability score increases.</p><p></p><p>A link to the full article on the wayback machine, should anyone care to read it:</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]http://web.archive.org/web/20151104075220/http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120604[/URL]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8460326, member: 6779196"] [USER=6807152]@Scribe[/USER], With the tip to check legends and lore, I did some digging, and while I have yet to find the quote in question, I did find something very interesting. In the original article introducing the concept of bounded accuracy (and coining the term for it) explained it thusly. [excerpt]The basic premise behind the bounded accuracy system is simple: we make no assumptions on the DM's side of the game that the player's attack and spell accuracy, or their defenses, increase as a result of gaining levels.[/excerpt] Furthermore, the article goes on to say very much the opposite of what I’m asserting (that primary ability bonus is expected to start at +3, increase to +4 at 4th level, and increase again to +5 at 8th level). [excerpt]We also make the same assumptions about character ability modifiers and skill bonuses. Thus, our expected DCs do not scale automatically with level, and instead a DC is left to represent the fixed value of the difficulty of some task, not the difficulty of the task relative to level.[/excerpt] However, this should be taken in context with the point on 5e’s development when the article was written. At the time, 5e’s proficiency bonus mechanic hadn’t been developed yet. Training in a skill or tool gave a flat +3 bonus that never increased, and different classes’ attack bonuses increased at different rates, as the article also alludes to: [excerpt]Now, note that I said that we make no assumptions on the DM's side of the game about increased accuracy and defenses. This does not mean that the players do not gain bonuses to accuracy and defenses. It does mean, however, that we do not need to make sure that characters advance on a set schedule, and we can let each class advance at its own appropriate pace.[/excerpt] If bounded accuracy means they assume no increase in accuracy as level increases, and everyone’s to-hit bonus increases at exactly the same rate, that must necessarily mean that target numbers increase commensurately with them, or else accuracy would increase. And we see exactly that if we look under the hood. As long as players’ primary ability modifier increases at 4th and 8th level, they maintain that same degree of accuracy against level-appropriate monsters (which depending on your starting score in your primary ability ranges between 45% and 65%). This seems to contradict the initial intent of bounded accuracy, but my hypothesis is that this was done in order to make possible another change that was introduced in the same packet as the proficiency bonus progression became unified: the equation of feats with ability score increases. A link to the full article on the wayback machine, should anyone care to read it: [URL unfurl="true"]http://web.archive.org/web/20151104075220/http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120604[/URL] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why do you use Floating ASI's (other than power gaming)? [+]
Top